Hmmm guess who just wentout and took some videos. And had his brother watch the scan tool as he got 0 KR in open loop (only 1 WOT run until it switch to closed loop though) and got the normal 15 KR in closed loop. Hmmmmm.

Some videos will be up in about 25-30 minutes in the in motion section. They are kind of embrassing though, no flaming lol (had a passenger and all the tools, and alot of old parts in the trunk so it may appear slow, probably had over 300 pounds of extra weight in it if not more)

Definitely fuel maps. Open loop uses a rich preset for safe operation during warmup, which could be solving the KR issue. Heck... does the knock sensor even detect knock while in open loop??? Someone wiser than myself will have to answer that one. But I'd say the rich open loop fuel map is the reason you have 0 KR, and it goes mega-lean once it hits closed loop.

I still can't explain why the fuel trims in your scan are near-normal... but if I had to bet I'd say you need a chip with enrichened fuel maps in the upper RPM range.

yea Ben i am going to agree but i am going to throw a curveball into the mix, and say the words false knock. I am wodering if it is false knock, the knock sensors may not be detecting in open loop and once it kicks into closed loop they may be picking it up. Either way i am doing a custom chip hopefully next paycheck and i will go from there.

It could be false knock. We need to find out if the knock sensors are functional in open loop or not. Anybody know for sure?

Videos are now being posted

I took the car out again today in open loop, watching the scan tool it said 0 KR but when i recorded it and went and looked at it, i was still seeing alot of knock. So i am confused again. I was seeing between 10-15 degrees even in open loop and the O2s (500'*) were so low i wanted to cry and it also showed the injectors were maxing out (22ipw). So i dont think open loop is correct when scanning. I let it go to closed loop and i was seeing 15 degrees above 4200 rpms everytime. So it looks like i might just start with a chip and see if that helps if not then i will go from there. Kinda feel dissappointed now, i really though it was pcm fueling issue (due to the open loop thing) but now i dont think so, because just watching the scan tool doesnt appear to be correct. i dunno

Have you done a fuel pressure test yet?

bye bye fuel pump.

TJ.. If you don't have a fueling issue..then something else is seriously wrong. Have you considered trying the pcm from your other car to ensure the pcm didn't go bad?

I don't think we can necessarily say it'* the fuel pump. I still maintain that his fuel maps should be the first thing addressed. Do a fuel pump afterwards. You need the chip anyway, so try it first.

So even the open loop fuel presets are not enough to counteract your lean condition. In my car the open loop didn't help, either. It was pegged lean the whole time. Don't despair, Terry. You'll get this figured out. It'* either fuel trims or a fuel pump.

i was asking him the same thing last night because that motor was on the other PCM before whit those mod except the cam and it was running great