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Old 11-03-2004, 12:31 PM   #81
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SLE, I'm impressed. This is what you're taking down:

Quote:
Horsepower: 253 at 6400 rpm
Torque (lbs-ft): 255 at 3950 rpm
Rivals: Audi A6, Oldsmobile Aurora, Toyota Avalon
Weight: 3,567 pounds
But I think the debate (remember the one that got heated and cooled off depending on who was posting ) has been fairly well settled at this point.
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Old 11-03-2004, 12:37 PM   #82
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I beat an '03 300M by about a half car length. I feel that their high rev torque is much better than mine. I know I made a kill story about it back in the day.
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Old 11-03-2004, 01:01 PM   #83
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Those 300M tranies are a classic example of the modern Chrysler tranny. Built to shift SOFT and SLOW for "comfort and luxury" while those shifts take forever, they're also destroying friction points.

Being made of swiss cheese dosen't help either.
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Old 11-03-2004, 03:57 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonneMeMN
Those 300M tranies are a classic example of the modern Chrysler tranny. Built to shift SOFT and SLOW for "comfort and luxury" while those shifts take forever, they're also destroying friction points.

Being made of swiss cheese dosen't help either.
Some of them get softer rather quickly, too. My Ex-father-in-law didn't keep his 300M for very long. He traded it in for a Tahoe, and hasn't regretted it since.
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Old 11-03-2004, 04:02 PM   #85
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yes i did take down that car on several occasions, my neighbor has raced me with the trans in autostick, and normal. he was close with the autostick but no chance in regualr mode. I have also drive this car on a regular occasion and I know that it is not as fast as my car by the "seat dyno"

I'll just have to get a video next time we go
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Old 11-03-2004, 10:03 PM   #86
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Ok comon people ....people would have never paid the price for an SSEi if they werent worth it....and there are plenty of used SSEi'* so that proves people think its worth it...heck in 95 the SSEi only had a 20 hp advantage over the SE and by the looks of it plenty of people here have bought a 95 SSEi....by the way I almost lost to a 300M that got the jump on me once....but that was a long time ago in a car far far away from the mod level its at
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Old 11-04-2004, 12:46 AM   #87
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BonnieMeMN, I can completely understand why you are getting frusterated with this. I have felt this way before on forums, and all I can really say is just move on. Obviously, a lot of people on this forum, including me, find it hard to believe that your car can take a stock SSEi. Does it really matter what others think? Maybe it can, I'm betting it can't, but its not impossible...afterall anything is possible.

This is how I see it...I'm not trying to insult you or flame you in any way, I just want to give you my honest educated opinion on this topic.

A stock '93 SSEi is 205hp/260tq.
A stock '93 SLE is 170hp/220tq.

The SSEi has a flat horsepower and torque curve. The SLE also has a fairly flat power and torque curve, due to it being pushrod, but its not nearly as flat as the SSEi. Now, lets give the SLE a 100lb. weight advantage over the SSEi (don't know if there is any actual noticable weight difference, but lets just give it to it). Now, I'm not up to snuf on my Series I'*, but the SLE has slightly shorter gearing right...like a .09 difference from what I've read? If this is true, the gearing difference shouldn't even be noticable in times, however lets give the SLE a tenth in the 1/4 for that...add that to the tenth it gained in weight, and you get a total of 2 tenths advantage over the SSEi. At this point, you're short 35hp/40ft.lbs, and you have a peakier power curve. So by my calculations, the SLE being 100lbs. lighter, and having gearing that gives it a tenth in the quater (which there is no way that gearing does), should be 9 tenths of a second slower in the 1/4 than an SSEi...which is probably giving it more credit then it should, but thats what I got from my calculations.

Now, I don't know what you are going to do to an L27 for 35hp, but it could be done without a power adder. What I really want to know is how you're going to make up the torque difference, and the huge power curve dfference. However, assuming you have the same exact power curve as the SSEi, it only has to make 5hp/5ft.lbs. more than you to make up the difference in gearing & weight. So tell me this, what have you done to your L27 to add 30hp/35lb.ft. and to get the flat power curve. If you have done that, then I entirely think its possible...but with equal drivers the SSEi is going to win every time.

Shawn
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:09 AM   #88
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This went from Custom88 talking anout his moms and brothers cars to whos car is faster? My how we can go off topic. Who cares who car goes fast or slow? As long as you all have a car that runs, shouldnt that matter? Goodness.....
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Old 11-04-2004, 02:07 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbtk2
BonnieMeMN, I can completely understand why you are getting frusterated with this. I have felt this way before on forums, and all I can really say is just move on.

Shawn
I did... Why does no one grasp this? Sure i have more points i could post, but it'* not worth the effort.

EDIT: Steve you're completely right.
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Old 11-04-2004, 10:52 AM   #90
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Ok, I'm in Atlanta working this week so I just now saw this and I thought I would weigh in on a few things (let stir this up again eh? )

1) The original question of whether or not an SSEi is faster than an NA stock for stock is a no brainer, however almost all of the advantage is down low and some of this is given up to wheel slip, traction contrl, and PCM torque mgmt. On paper it looks really good for an SSEi however in the real world from anything other than a dig I can see how an NA and SSEi would feel close to the same to the "butt dyno".

2) Modding and SSEi is much easier, cheaper, and faster then an N/A car so if your plans are to mod get the SSEi. Eough said about that.

3) Jason'* car. As with a few people in this thread I was at the track when Jason ran. Exhaust, intake, and weight difference netted him .2 dif over JLAudio. This is either 20HP, 200lb'*, or a combination all things being equal. If its 20hp then it would be close to a 92-93 SSEi horsepower range so it is conceivable even without the torque he would be close. My personal opinion is that its a weight/hp combo that is the difference as well as getting a decent launch on crappy tires. This brings me to my next point.

4) Can Jason'* car take an SSEi in the 1/4? Absolutely, and in fact he has, a 98 SSEi to be exact. Can he do it constantly? Not at his current power level. Any given day a car can win (well almost) and a lot comes into play. A stock SSEi (especially a S2) has a lot going against it in the pcm which can give the HP advantage to an N/A given certain conditions. Wheel slip, torque mgmt, stabilitrak system all can play a part in slowing an SSEi way down. Again on paper its a no brainer, in the real world its quite possible although not consistantly. The SSEi'* greatest strength is also its greatest weakness. Gobs of torque down low for great accelration, however you spin the tires and the PCM takes that torque advantage away and quickly. (Again this is stock SSEis as this can be fixed with modded PCMs).

5) This brings up the GTP that "couldn't get out the way". The weight of other passengers, the fact that he may have left his ABS fuse in (sort of like our TC hinderance), a bad launch, whatever could have greatly impacted the 1/4 ET of it. If you only get to the track a few times a year, and things go your way a lot then its easy to see how one could get the impression that your car is a freak or faster then normal. On the street is a completely different story and an N/A car will ALWAYS be more consistant than a boosted car as its not affected as much by heat, atmospheric conditions, etc... If you pick on a stock boosted car with 100 humidity, 100 degree weather, and a bad driver, sure you can probably take it (or at least be close)

6) Sorry for MY novel, don't ban me
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