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Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 03-03-2007, 11:33 AM   #61
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Please look very carefully at this picture:



Notice how the LIM lines up perfectly with the head port? (Nice shot, Don!)

It'* VERY important to make the LIM outlets NO LARGER in either width or height than the
head ports themselves. Please remember also that there IS some risk involved. We've only got these on two test cars so far, one went on yesterday, and the other is down for a blown crank. We're not getting alot of time or miles on these yet.

You MUST have the right tools, patience, and half a lick of common sense before starting, and don't be one of the guys that decides to do it SECRETLY to surprise everyone, or you won't be apt to ask questions during the porting when you need to.

History is repeating itself again folks. Let'* try to get THIS one right.
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Old 03-03-2007, 11:38 AM   #62
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Yea, that is a good shot. Good cutting boss. Even without having the original ports to go by, it lines up real good.

Expect to have your car off the road for at least 3-4 days. If not more. Order all your parts prior to tear down. If you have a extra LIM, start practicing on that before you do the actual LIM.
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Old 03-03-2007, 11:51 AM   #63
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thank you for the notice hans but im 51 years old been drag racer since im 18 rebuilt and modifing small block chevy and 460 ford (oups) im new only to 3800 buick and i got so far a doorman intake that i made a sleeve for and i know i have to change the LIM gasket because my 98 buick been on dex cool all its life. if im here its because ive know tj we race at the same track and always looking to improve on a good thing whit the pict and this post i know what to do now but i like very much this site and you guys for the good works
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Old 03-03-2007, 11:51 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1995
Yea, that is a good shot. Good cutting boss. Even without having the original ports to go by, it lines up real good.

Expect to have your car off the road for at least 3-4 days. If not more. Order all your parts prior to tear down. If you have a extra LIM, start practicing on that before you do the actual LIM.
Mike, the L67 ports are the same size, and I had the Zilla torn down when I did this one.

Don't do your OEM LIM. Get a junker. That way you can go back to the other LIM in 2 or 3 hours if you need to.

Other minor notes from phone convo'* with Don over the last few days:

1. Remember that he has a ZM TB also. It will help support this, and may or may not gain much by itself, but the TB and LIM mods will work much better together.

2. Don gained from my old drop-in K&N BEFORE he did the LIM. Even on his gutted OEM airbox. Make sure you can support the flow all the way through.

3. If you have one of those L36'* that have KR in stock form, you might want to seriously consider PEM'* first. This could make it worse. Just theory and conjecture at this point.

4. TPS voltages may also be very critical. By making the top end flow more efficient, your PCM may need help understanding it all. The TPS may become a critical factor.

5. You MUST have a scantool before you start this.

6. Anyone doing this should SERIOUSLY consider a flowmatched set of injectors. You'll gain it'* full potential that way.

The L36 ports are UGLY in stock form. Don told me this a couple years ago, and until I got EK98'* in my hands, I didn't understand just how bad they were. It'* not just that the average size is less than the head port opening, but the port openings in the LIM vary in size from port to port as originally cast for GM. When you match them perfectly, you balance the airflow and increase the port velocity (hence the bottom/midrange power gain). Matching your injectors to match this perfectly matched airflow would be a big benefit.

Much credit goes to my Co-Admin Don (jr's3800). Many of these ideas over the last 5 years have resulted from phone calls with him, or at the very least, he'* had very good input in my theories. Credit also goes to the guys who have taken on the risk of becoming a test car for some of this work.

My SC, TB, and LIM work is done, other than one little problem TB for a shortstar that pissed me off and will NOT kick my arse.

There will be two more test cars (already identified) for the next ZM improvement This will also be for the L36. Other than that, it'* time for me to concetrate on my own cars now.
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Old 03-03-2007, 11:53 AM   #65
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opss again not hans but will
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Old 03-03-2007, 12:04 PM   #66
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My warnings and advice above are primarily for those that haven't done work like this. I was speaking in general to all the L36 owners here. Not to you specifically.
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Old 03-03-2007, 12:19 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Please look very carefully at this picture:



Notice how the LIM lines up perfectly with the head port? (Nice shot, Don!)

It'* VERY important to make the LIM outlets NO LARGER in either width or height than the
head ports themselves. Please remember also that there IS some risk involved. We've only got these on two test cars so far, one went on yesterday, and the other is down for a blown crank. We're not getting alot of time or miles on these yet.

You MUST have the right tools, patience, and half a lick of common sense before starting, and don't be one of the guys that decides to do it SECRETLY to surprise everyone, or you won't be apt to ask questions during the porting when you need to.

History is repeating itself again folks. Let'* try to get THIS one right.
I want to comment a little here again in case anyone missed it... In the above Pic you can see the edge of the head in the port... The Manifold was a tad off center.... We lined it up... Bill got the Ports 99.9% perfect as you can see in the Pic...

The car is a different animal, The power comes on in a smooth manner, it doesn't seem peaky, as in dead early on and better in the mid to high range... It pulls good and strong from the word go and continues up the rev band.. Not to mention it revs sooo easy now.. Its amazing to see how an intake maifold casting could rob a 3800 of sooo much... Often times I have wondered if GM held the 3800 L36 back a little... Its nice to not have an TQ management well..

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Old 03-03-2007, 12:26 PM   #68
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I want to thank you again for all your work and help. ZM is helping this community alot. I cant wait to get some warm weather and some money. I will have a review of the combination on TB, LIM, and flow matched injectors. I am going to pick away at this between now and summer time. If everything goes right, then plan on seeing many before and after videos and timeslips, ect. Also if you get anymore ideas pm me, i am very interested in these kind of ideas and would like to be updated on any ideas that pop in your mind. And if i get anymore ideas then you know i will pm you lol
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Old 03-03-2007, 12:52 PM   #69
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The next idea for the L36 won't be coming around publicly until around summer. But you'll want all the other stuff in place for it.

I think the next week or two on Don'* car will tell us the story for sure, especially with Mike1995'* experience. The nice thing was that Mike installed his ZM intake on a bone-stock engine. He got the same great results as Don, despite Don'* much-better-flowing mods. Don will gain more, but Mike clearly came home from his test drive with a big grin.
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Old 03-03-2007, 12:57 PM   #70
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yea, it is surprising that a bone stock car would see nice gains. That just means a nicley modded one will have excellent gains. My only question would have to be, are all l36 head ports the same. I know you guys are using measurements but will those measurements work on all cars. Or should you measure you head ports before doing the porting.
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