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Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 03-02-2007, 11:04 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXGTP
I have to agree with Bill here, the HV3 is all about the high rpm only..
The work Bill is doing is low RPM torque.. I'll say it again, :P

Low RPM torque.

BTW, that looks really good, anyone talking with Ben about getting this done on his 97?

Bill, if ship you one of those L36 TB'* will you work it for Ben? Or who ever did that nice work.
Also those intake runners look real good.

Looks good guys.
Thomas, thanks for the props. Your opinions on this work mean quite a bit, considering your vast experience and knowledge with these motors. The whole idea was to get a little low end and midrange for the L36. Ok, the REAL idea was that those ports were FUGLY to begin with, but I figured the results would be similar to what I did on my L67 (please note the L67 S1 has an ugly LIM, the S2 doesn't). What surprised me was the top end gain as well. It seems to have gained across the band.

The L36 ZM LIM #2 is being installed today by 2 members. Let'* see how that test comes back. First set of data on the ZM L36 TB is also done. OEM TB is being tested this morning. Full set of data on the ZM LIM and TB combined will probably come in tomorrow.

From the seat-of-the-pants dyno, the TB and LIM work have already made some people very happy. We're working on hard numbers now.
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:15 PM   #42
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TB data may be bunko. Weather conditions are far different today for the second half of the test.
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:46 PM   #43
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The HV3 is more oriented for top end. It does have more midrange gain than the HVII.
In Ben'* case, low end isn't really a big issue though. 3.73s and a higher stall make short work of that.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:26 PM   #44
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For those interested in the throttle body tests, the reason the tests went bunko was not out of ignorance, but simply a function of the schedule of the other work happening to the car. One test had to be run yesterday afternoon, the other this morning. The data would have been skewed too far positive or negative regardless.

1st test was with the ZM TB on a heatsoaked engine:
Date 3/1/2007
Time 6:00pm EST
Temp 74
Humidity 77%
Baro 1009.7

2nd test was on the OEM TB on a non-heatsoaked (warmed) engine:
Date 3/2/2007
Time 10:00am EST
Temp 77F
Humidity 81%
Baro 1010.0

The TB changes will be subtle and hard to characterize to begin with. The greatest benefit is in throttle response, or slightly more airflow at a given throttle angle under load. In these tests, results weren't associated with throttle angle. Too hard to do an a mostly 'manual' scantool. Too many other variables to get good data.

The Florida test team will try to get better results for flow on the LIM comparisons. Swap is in progress.
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Old 03-02-2007, 07:33 PM   #45
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Thomas, I already have a somewhat ported LIM. Doug did it back in 2005 when we put my engine back together after the cam swap. However, he wasn't very happy with the results and is thinking about doing another one.

I don't know what the hell is wrong with my car, but I can barely slip the tires between 15-20mph even with 3.73 gears

How are you guys getting the tires to break loose with far fewer mods than I have? Makes me think I don't have parts installed that compliment each other very well
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Old 03-02-2007, 08:01 PM   #46
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I dont know ben. But i wouldnt be too worried about breaking the tires loose. All that does is slow you down. I would be worried if you went to the track and couldnt lay down respectable times.
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Old 03-02-2007, 09:35 PM   #47
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well Guys I don't have any pics up yet...

But I am very pleased... Sad part is that we disconnected the battery, so the car is in learn mode now...

While we were in there, I decided to replace the lifters with comp Cams OE Lifters... Just needed a replacement not an oil restricted.. So thats what I went with.. Also used new rocker arm Bolts... Mike( Lash ) was kind enough to give me a hand.... We took a couple of breaks from the car to do lunch and install some speakers in his car.. All worked out well..

Yesterday Myself and Brad ran some testes on a Heat soaked Car in the Eve right before he left...

This Morning Myself and Lash ran the tests on the Stock TB..

Once we were done with that we started tinkering with his audio a little and then decided we needed connectors... so we got lunch...

Long of the short is...

New OE Comp lifters, New Aluminum LIM gaskets, ZM Ported LIM, ZM Shaved TB...

Once we got it all together, we let it run( did a little ticking for a few minutes and cleared right up )... Made sure the lifters were happy, made sure the coolant was topped off and we had no leaks... Once we felt that we had everything buttoned up we took it for a spin..

Low end and midrange is a whole lot nice than I expected... Pulls even stronger through the lower revs.. I ran to about 5k, I didn't have it to the floor( Close but not on metal )... The car seems to pull very evenly through the range, doesn't seem to have the lag it once had... With the new found adaption to be able to inhale the engine seems to be much happier to tug the Big bonne around with 3rd and 4th TCC lock..

I let Mike drive it too, and he was also amazed at how much it smoothed out over the entire range, and the low end torque improvement...

I think I am more pleased with the improvement over the entire rev range as opposed to just the top end... The engine seems to rev better, and get through the revs faster when pushed...

I honestly feel that with me having the PEM'*, High Flow Cat, Gutted Air Box, Shaved TB have all given me the proper mods to feel the change in what was lacking in the middle..

I want everyone to know that the intake was not hogged out... It was cleaned up in a very precise manner.. To date this is the single best improvement I have done to this car.. This makes me want to clean up the Manifolds on the other cars...

I am the happiest I have ever been with this motor

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Old 03-02-2007, 09:40 PM   #48
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A job well done by ZillaMotorsports East.

PCM learning should come to you in the next day or two for the fueling. Mileage as well. Keep up the driving reports! I think the results from the first two test cars are encouraging enough to call this one a green light for others?
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Old 03-02-2007, 09:43 PM   #49
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I think its too early to report... The LIM gaskets were barely 2 years old.. But without the Dex.. They looked like brand spanking new

None the less I was more than happy to have the aluminum frame gaskets... I will post a few pics later and try to give more descriptions

I need some supper...

Tomorrw I will change the oil which I have neglected for a long long time( black as tar ) then change it again in about 1500 miles back to Mobil 1...

And I used the Prestone Orange long life again..

And Mike had the Scantool in his hands after we took off for the test run... He had said that it was all over the place... It was trying to learn... Had some quirks for the first few miles

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Old 03-02-2007, 11:08 PM   #50
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Ok, Here are a couple pics of the intake..


Some pitting... Nothing bad
Holly bat man look at that port


Once we had my upper removed we started to inspect it...

What you see here looks a lot worse than it really is... But none the less with the original stove pipe the Upper was getting cooked... I believe this was happening on my long trips.. I installed a RD stove pipe in the Lower and will continue to monitor the intake in the future..


From this point we yanked the rocker bolts, rockers and pushrods... Then the Lifter retainers and then lifters.. After this we installed the new Comp Cams lifters that had been soaking in Havoline...lol... And installed the pushrods and rockers in the same place they came from with the new rocker bolts torqued to spec... Then the valve covers went back on..




After getting everything squeeky clean( Thanks Mike ) we set the Gaskets in place... I actually like to dab a bit of copper at the corners, add a film of copper to the bottom of the gaskets and set them in place.. Then I add a bit to the top and the corners again... Let it sit a few minutes and then install the lower intake... We claened the bolts and used some Blue thread lock to keep the bolts from backing out... Torqued in sequence... I am sooo happy to have the aluminum frame gaskets in there... Hopefully I'll never have to go in there again.. we also installed a new Thermostat( Stant 180F )...




we noticed alignment issues with the stove pipe.. Must be an issue with most of the uppers in one way or another.. My Delphi upper was cooking in the same spot this one started to.... Odd




Not perfect port pics... But I have to say, Great Job Wren... The ports were matched precisely...




Keep in mind at this point the intake was not bolted down, it was just sitting there.. we centered it perfectly once we installed the bolts






Tried to help Mike move his foot... Somehow I missed

In the end I am happy with the results, and would do it all again.... I look foward to doing this to Mikes car next

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