Mortehl's Performance Buildup - Page 7 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-17-2006, 11:49 PM   #61
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Home Sweet Home in New York
Posts: 2,009
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mortehl is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSEimatt93
On the stall converter topic. Don't, trust me, i work in a heavy duty automotive truck store, and work with many parts guys with 20 years experience, they all have seen issues from higher stall converters. One of the Mechanics built FWD and RWD automatics, he adviced strongly against it unless the car is a 100% track hound.
You would have to drive across country in 3rd
Okay, keepin the converter where its at.
Mortehl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2006, 11:51 PM   #62
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta, _______Canada._______ West Coast Bonneville Fest ___05,06,07 Survivor___
Posts: 8,134
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
SSEimatt93 is on a distinguished road
Default

Good idea man, you just saved your new tranny from a sudden death!
SSEimatt93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2006, 11:57 PM   #63
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Home Sweet Home in New York
Posts: 2,009
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mortehl is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSEimatt93
Good idea man, you just saved your new tranny from a sudden death!
All about ideas man.

Mortehl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2006, 12:06 AM   #64
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta, _______Canada._______ West Coast Bonneville Fest ___05,06,07 Survivor___
Posts: 8,134
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
SSEimatt93 is on a distinguished road
Default

At this point in time, my only adivice to you, get lots of small parts boxes, keep all your bolts organized and labled, Morty, this is crucial, and will save you alot of grief. Take pictures, lots, not necessarily to post on the site, but for your own reference, trust me, It gets a bit complicated once u start un hooking and removing wires, plugs and vacuum lines. Don't try to beat the clock here at all, take your time, I did to an extent, and Im fairly pleased with the results, however, It has cost me alot of money now as I am seeing what my cars' breaking point is. For god sake, make it so that car can make it to WCBF this year!
SSEimatt93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2006, 11:09 AM   #65
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Home Sweet Home in New York
Posts: 2,009
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mortehl is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSEimatt93
At this point in time, my only adivice to you, get lots of small parts boxes, keep all your bolts organized and labled, Morty, this is crucial, and will save you alot of grief. Take pictures, lots, not necessarily to post on the site, but for your own reference, trust me, It gets a bit complicated once u start un hooking and removing wires, plugs and vacuum lines. Don't try to beat the clock here at all, take your time, I did to an extent, and Im fairly pleased with the results, however, It has cost me alot of money now as I am seeing what my cars' breaking point is. For god sake, make it so that car can make it to WCBF this year!
I'll be there, don't worry . I'm doing things in stages... while the tranny'* being tranified, I'm going to be doing all the porting. Before I put the top end back on, I'll switch in the heads. Et cetera.
Mortehl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2006, 02:22 PM   #66
Senior Member
Posts like a Corvette
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bolingbrook, IL Location: Clarkston, MI
Posts: 1,256
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
llBlazin_llLo is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortehl
Blazin, I think you're missing the point: The purpose of the WI as WE are using it isn't for adding timing or generating more power. WE're trying to cool the top end off with it. Nothing more. Nothing less. For my own, I'm using a system which is going to tie into the MAF and make adjustments based on that. I don't expect more power out of it. I expect intercooling effect
And I repeat...
Quote:
I totally disagree with you on the tuning thing. Maybe their is no tuning on a setup like yours where basically you are just misting water into the intake. But if you want to get the most out of W/I the tune is going to be crazy!
I really don't get why you would run water injection and not look to get the full potential out of it. It just seems like a waste then to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
No, I didn't say you had to port the outlet. I'm getting at a POINT, that if you're going try to cool your boost charge, there are other things you should take a SERIOUS look at other factors that are easy to fix and can also help keep the charge cool. Saying you have to port a SC to run WI is asinine. But you're the expert.
And I quote...
Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
I use it as a form of intercooling. And yes, I'll be able to drop pulley sizes. That'* the main effort. But there'* other work that needs to be done to make it work efficiently.
"Saying you have to port a SC to run WI is asinine." You said it not me! It looks like you said that you need a ported */c to not make the engine work efficiently but W/I work efficiently. I know what your getting at it just wasn't worded the best...

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
On the tuning aspects, it depends on what you're after. An intercooling effect? You don't need much. Just enough to run a smaller pulley? Or balls-out? H***, there'* NA guys running this stuff with no tuning all over the damn place. In applications where they can't get real tuning anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Your general statements about 'you'll have to tune' are only right for about 20% of the users. MOST systems available commercially require some slight tuning to the DELIVERY system, not the PCM.
If you are adding a form of gas to your intake stream that is unmetered by the car, how do you figure your not going to have to tune?

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
There'* Miata'* racing balls-out in Singapore and the Phillipines in horrible heat and humidity 'rednecking' systems from the WS system that allow them to run at tracks when the conditions would normally make their cars want to stay home.

WI isn't something new and mystical. It'* been used since 1910 in cars and was used extensively in WWII in our aircraft.

But you're the expert. Maybe I'll ditch my system since you know so much about it. You learned all this by doing it YOURSELF like I did, right?
Thanks for the history lesson. Quote me where I say that W/I wouldn't work or doesn't work? All I'm saying is that N20 will cool the 'top half' of the motor better then W/I. N20 will give you more power then W/I would. N20 is going to be safer then W/I unless you are only using W/I to mist the intake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSEimatt93
On the stall converter topic. Don't, trust me, i work in a heavy duty automotive truck store, and work with many parts guys with 20 years experience, they all have seen issues from higher stall converters. One of the Mechanics built FWD and RWD automatics, he adviced strongly against it unless the car is a 100% track hound.
You would have to drive across country in 3rd
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSEimatt93
Good idea man, you just saved your new tranny from a sudden death!
Where are you getting this info? You have O/D with a higher stall converter, the only way you wouldn't is if you get a all out race converter that has had the lock-up clutch removed . How many 4T65e are out their with higher stalls? I don't see them failing left and right...

I wouldn't recommend a crazy stall but in the 2500-3000 area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Blazinlo, I think the best thing for you to do is put a higher stall converter and water injection on your car. Then come back to us with your learned experiences rather than differing opinions.

We're speaking from OUR experiences with these things. And I don't have a habit of intentionall steering people wrong on some of these things. I wanted to KNOW about water injection. I could have purchased an off-the-shelf solution and plugged it in. I chose to develop my own from scratch and actually learn something. I'm on my 4th home-built system now, and to this day, I've only got ONE component in my system that was made by a water injection system manufacturer. The nozzle itself. I MADE the nozzles in my previous 3 systems.

I try MANY things on my own car. Simply to see what works and what doesn't. I post my successes for others to try.
That just shows how much you know about me ... I did run W/I over the spring/summer... I didn't care for it - O2'* were all aver the place, once I thought that I got them locked in temps/weather would change and I was at square one again. I was constantly scanning and logging. I finally gave up with it b/c I didn't think that what I was getting out of it was worth the pain in the *** it was.

If my tranny ever goes you bet your *** I'm going to be putting in a higher stall and a gear change.
llBlazin_llLo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2006, 02:30 PM   #67
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default

Blazin, the methanol isn't used as a FUEL in the water. It'* a COOLING agent. As it evaporates, it cools the air. Colder air is denser. The methanol itself doesn't actually burn in the engine in the manner of combustion.

It causes no need to tune.

Put alcohol or methanol on your hand on a breezy day. You know the effect. The hotter the environment it'* in, the quicker it turns from a liquid to a gas that dissipates. The effect is a cooler charge.

On the higher stall, we're talking about cars that have to drive between one and THREE thousand miles this summer. A higher stall is suicide in that situation.

For a locally driven car or track queen, raise the stall all you want. But you also have to remember that heat kills a trans eventually, and a higher stall CREATES more heat. Far more. Higher stall is your personal choice, but we want Mortehl to know the risks.
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2006, 02:37 PM   #68
Senior Member
Posts like a Corvette
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bolingbrook, IL Location: Clarkston, MI
Posts: 1,256
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
llBlazin_llLo is on a distinguished road
Default

Methanol will raise your octane... That is how people running W/I can run 87 octane on a not stock GTP. Have you ever checked out your o2'*?

Todd has a higher stall and I know he has drove thousands of miles on his higher stall and gear change (Intense advertises it for the Gen III LSD). My roommate has a higher stall and gear change and his car is his DD and he drives to home ever break 600 miles away.
llBlazin_llLo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2006, 02:44 PM   #69
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by llBlazin_llLo
Methanol will raise your octane... That is how people running W/I can run 87 octane on a not stock GTP. Have you ever checked out your o2'*?
Methanol does NOT raise octane. It cools the intake charge to the point you don't get knock or detonation with 87 octane. Do you have an idea of how LITTLE you're actually injecting? Maybe if you put Methanol in the tank of gas itself, it would raise the octane (same thing I do with Toluene, which is much better suited for this). But not the tiny amount of diluted Methanol being injected and evaporating inside the manifold. It does prevent KR, but not by raising the effective octane of the fuel.

The net effect of boosting octane by adding solvents to the tank of fuel is not practical. By the time you boost 87 up in octane with Acetone, Methanol, or Toluene, it'* more expensive than just buying premium to begin with.

In addition, raised octane does not require re-tuning.

Quote:
Todd has a higher stall and I know he has drove thousands of miles on his higher stall and gear change (Intense advertises it for the Gen III LSD). My roommate has a higher stall and gear change and his car is his DD and he drives to home ever break 600 miles away.
How much was it raised? What'* the gear ratio and weight difference between an SSEi and a GTP? How is the stall affected by the gear change? What gears? What stall?

In GENERAL, raising the stall will create heat. Nearly deadly in Pdad'* case.
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2006, 03:02 PM   #70
Senior Member
Posts like a Corvette
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bolingbrook, IL Location: Clarkston, MI
Posts: 1,256
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
llBlazin_llLo is on a distinguished road
Default

You are adding extra fuel to the car in the form of Methanol. The cars computer doesn't know how much you are injecting b/c it is unmetered. The extra fuel is going to make you run rich. As far as the octane - Yah I can put race gas in a stock car and it is not going to help me...

Like I said before if you are basically just misting the intake (esp. with just water) you are not going to have to tune.

Todd'* IIRC is a 3000 stall and 3.69 gearing. Room mate is 3000 stall and 3.29 gearing. Yes a stall is going to make your trans run hotter but you are also doing many things that are cooling the trans in the process like a 160 t-stat.

The converter makes ALOT of heat because when it ISN'T locked up, it'* shearing the fluid (forcing the fluid particles to rub against one another). That'* how a viscous coupling works. In lockup, it produces no heat. When you're in town, you're NEVER in lockup, so you're constantly producing heat. If a torque converter didn't create heat, we'd have no need for a tranny oil cooler. You really don't know alot about torque converters and how they work, do you?

If a TCC fails, it send alot of debris through the trans and then cooks the fluid. You sure that isn't what happend?
llBlazin_llLo is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I wanna go fast. (Performance Buildup) Hans Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning 41 03-18-2007 01:09 PM
00 out of commission - performance buildup specs & quest harofreak00 Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning 90 02-09-2007 08:19 PM
Willwren, BillBoost37, Mortehl, MOS95B, 1993 SLE - Read Kelly Lounge 6 11-23-2005 03:38 PM
97 Bonneville SSE Rear Drum Brakes/ Buildup/ Grind Noise - ? 97BonnSSE 1992-1999 5 01-02-2003 09:23 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:37 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.