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Old 11-30-2010, 07:39 PM   #31
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I concur. Sounds like a plan. Since my sub is a mix of SPL and SQ i can listen to rock and country. but i have to access my menu on my cd player and turn down my sub outs.
But i was really suprized in the accuracy and quality of bass with my Fi and thats at over double the rms and in a 3 cu ft PORTED box. Thats why i think a Fi SSD or Q tuned for SQ would be hard to beat but I havent heard many DD'*, RE'*, or Sundowns.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:02 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor660 View Post
Yes I know that
Only reason I pointed that out is because he said he wanted something geared towards SQ and you brought up an SPL sub.

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Originally Posted by raptor660 View Post
Well i dont consider some buddies throwing a system together while drinking some beer a custom install. There is a place in Jackson, MI that is one of the best in the state. And they hold db competitions and car/Audio shows and thats where i got to sit in a couple W7 builds. 2 were show and one was a SPL set up. And I was expecting to get scared from the spl car and i was disappointed. They had a pretty loud L7 SPL TB SS there tho
Again, just because it'* custom doesn't mean it'* right. The perfect example of that is here: (keep in mind this is on an install that costed about 10-12k, if not more)

He had a battery bank of about 8 g34'*, this is how they had it grounded
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Yep, that'* two 0ga. grounds held in place with 1/8th inch self tappers

This guy was running over 25k watts in his truck, multiple runs of 0ga. wire from his dual alternator setup and not a single external fuse anywhere in the install!

On top of that, his amps had dual power and ground inputs on them and this is how they wired them up
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Instead of running 8 runs of power and 8 runs of ground to the amps like they should have, the ran 4 of each and just made a jank Y splice by cold soldering and electrical taping the hell out of it at the splice point to give each run two ends. Now that'* custom!

So yeah, being custom installed at a shop doesn't automatically mean it was done like it should be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremerevolution View Post
That Image Dynamics sub looks pretty awesome. Definitely sounds like a great sub, but while I am primarily focused on SQ, I do want it to be decently loud when I feel like getting a little crazy. Would that have what I want in that regard? If so, that may be the ticket.

Lol, damn you for adding another choice in my already difficult set of choices. I'm throwing the two ED subs out as I'm trying to save space here so I'm down to:

Fi SSD10
RE SEX10D2
Sundown SA-10 D2
Image Dynamics IDQ10V2.D4
The IDQ subs are the hands down winner when it comes to SQ out of all on that list, and will hold thier own when it comes to SPL...it'* pretty tame until you push it, then it roars like you never imagined it could. I'd take the IDQ'* without even thinking twice, out of the subs on your list.

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Originally Posted by xtremerevolution View Post
However, they seem to have this one available:

http://www.woofersetc.com/p4993/ID10...-Subwoofer.htm

In dual 4 and dual 2 ohm versions. Would this be a comparable sub to the one previously mentioned?

According to this post:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/728931-post5.html

The guy hit 142db on that 10" sub!

Also, why would one choose the dual 2 ohm version over the dual 4 ohm and vice versa?
No, that'* the model subs I had (still have, just not using at the moment). Those are the ID line, you want the IDQ line.

The ID line is good, I was blown away at not only the fact that they sounded as good as they did but that they got as loud as they did. I ran mine on 910 watts rms (clamped power) off an AQ1200D and they didn't even break a sweat. On second look, the IDQ v2 subs are discontinued but that'* because they have the new line out, the IDQ v3! But they're more expensive than your $180 budget (but worth every penny!!) If you plan on spending $180 at most, it'* just another $50 to step up to something that fits your needs the best out of the subs on your list. I highly suggest the IDQ!

http://www.woofersetc.com/p5807/IDQ1...-Subwoofer.htm

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Originally Posted by xtremerevolution View Post
My amp is stable at 1600W @ 1 ohm. It will handle just about anything. At 4 ohm it will run at 550W, which could possibly be too low for a 400W RMS sub. I've always heard its best to overpower your subs. I might be better off going with one I can wire to 2 ohm. That'* how I wired up the R12 in the Bonneville.

What do you guys think? With the amp I have, dual 4 or dual 2 for this particular sub?
It'* not really about power level, it'* about cleanliness of the signal. Underpowering a sub is not what kills it, maxing out the volume on and underpowererd sub, which sends it a clipped signal, is what kills them. So long as you show some restraint when underpowering your subs, you'll be alright.

I don't know that overpowering or underpowering is superior to the other, I think the most important thing is that you set your gain right and don't send it a clipped signal. The reason I say that is because you can blow a sub just as easy overpowering it as you can underpowering it. The good thing about overpowering it though, is that you can always increase the power as you see fit by resetting your gain, you have that headroom not there when you don't overpower. But I thought you were only gonna run one sub???

If so, one IDQD4v3 will be fine, it'* rated at 500rms

Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor660 View Post
But i was really suprized in the accuracy and quality of bass with my Fi and thats at over double the rms and in a 3 cu ft PORTED box. Thats why i think a Fi SSD or Q tuned for SQ would be hard to beat but I havent heard many DD'*, RE'*, or Sundowns.
I think DD'* are the ultimate SQ-SPL sub. Fi is good, but DD is on another level. That Fi Q though, hard to beat that sub for the money. That'* the thing about DD, it'* great stuff but kinda pricey. You definitely have one of the best out there in the Fi Q
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:50 AM   #33
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LoL @ the pics of JPrice'* old install. Man that stuff was rigged.

Have you seen all the new BTL models, Monte? I know the N2 (which Raptor linked) is replacing the old BTL, but the 1k RMS N1 model is said to be more of a SQ sub (similar to the Q). IIRC, Scott said he felt it sounded better than the Q.

I don't have a ton of experience with all sorts of different subs, but my Sundown z15 is the cleanest, tightest sounding sub I've ever had. I know you said you wanted to go sealed, but you could also consider running something like the Sundown SA10 ported and tuned a bit higher for rock. My sub is tuned to 35 hz and it plays rock like a dream. It play up to about 70 hz pretty strong. And, you were mentioning wanting a small box. That'* what I like about Sundown subs. They work well in small enclosures. The SA10 only needs about 1 cube net ported, which is a very small box. Of course, I like clean bass, but also loud. I had a Fi SSD 12 in a sealed box on over 1k watts and it was OK, but ported just gives me the volume I like. I know you said you don't want the over the top loud bass. But, there'* nothing like listening to some rock/metal and feeling every bass drum hit.
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Old 12-01-2010, 05:39 AM   #34
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My 15" Fi Q is tuned to 35 hz also.
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Old 12-01-2010, 05:43 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04MonteLS View Post
Only reason I pointed that out is because he said he wanted something geared towards SQ and you brought up an SPL sub.

Again, just because it'* custom doesn't mean it'* right. The perfect example of that is here: (keep in mind this is on an install that costed about 10-12k, if not more)

He had a battery bank of about 8 g34'*, this is how they had it grounded

Yep, that'* two 0ga. grounds held in place with 1/8th inch self tappers

This guy was running over 25k watts in his truck, multiple runs of 0ga. wire from his dual alternator setup and not a single external fuse anywhere in the install!

On top of that, his amps had dual power and ground inputs on them and this is how they wired them up

Instead of running 8 runs of power and 8 runs of ground to the amps like they should have, the ran 4 of each and just made a jank Y splice by cold soldering and electrical taping the hell out of it at the splice point to give each run two ends. Now that'* custom!

So yeah, being custom installed at a shop doesn't automatically mean it was done like it should be done.

The IDQ subs are the hands down winner when it comes to SQ out of all on that list, and will hold thier own when it comes to SPL...it'* pretty tame until you push it, then it roars like you never imagined it could. I'd take the IDQ'* without even thinking twice, out of the subs on your list.

No, that'* the model subs I had (still have, just not using at the moment). Those are the ID line, you want the IDQ line.

The ID line is good, I was blown away at not only the fact that they sounded as good as they did but that they got as loud as they did. I ran mine on 910 watts rms (clamped power) off an AQ1200D and they didn't even break a sweat. On second look, the IDQ v2 subs are discontinued but that'* because they have the new line out, the IDQ v3! But they're more expensive than your $180 budget (but worth every penny!!) If you plan on spending $180 at most, it'* just another $50 to step up to something that fits your needs the best out of the subs on your list. I highly suggest the IDQ!

http://www.woofersetc.com/p5807/IDQ1...-Subwoofer.htm

It'* not really about power level, it'* about cleanliness of the signal. Underpowering a sub is not what kills it, maxing out the volume on and underpowererd sub, which sends it a clipped signal, is what kills them. So long as you show some restraint when underpowering your subs, you'll be alright.

I don't know that overpowering or underpowering is superior to the other, I think the most important thing is that you set your gain right and don't send it a clipped signal. The reason I say that is because you can blow a sub just as easy overpowering it as you can underpowering it. The good thing about overpowering it though, is that you can always increase the power as you see fit by resetting your gain, you have that headroom not there when you don't overpower. But I thought you were only gonna run one sub???

If so, one IDQD4v3 will be fine, it'* rated at 500rms

I think DD'* are the ultimate SQ-SPL sub. Fi is good, but DD is on another level. That Fi Q though, hard to beat that sub for the money. That'* the thing about DD, it'* great stuff but kinda pricey. You definitely have one of the best out there in the Fi Q
Just remember X.. These are just opinions. If u got on a car audio forum u will find people standing up for there brand to the death. Except the stuff about the Fi Q. Thats pretty much fact
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:02 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmac694203 View Post
Have you seen all the new BTL models, Monte? I know the N2 (which Raptor linked) is replacing the old BTL, but the 1k RMS N1 model is said to be more of a SQ sub (similar to the Q). IIRC, Scott said he felt it sounded better than the Q.
Nah, i'm not really up on the latest and greatest Fi stuff, but if that'* what'* being said I have no reason to doubt it.

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Just remember X.. These are just opinions. If u got on a car audio forum u will find people standing up for there brand to the death. Except the stuff about the Fi Q. Thats pretty much fact
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:52 AM   #37
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http://www.woofersetc.com/p5807/IDQ1...-Subwoofer.htm

That'* actually $60 above my budget, lol. However, if you say that it will have everything I need, I'm going to heavily consider it. Would the ID subs I posted a link to not be as powerful or as clear as this one? How are they different? Just learning here. Is it really $80 more of a sub?
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:57 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmac694203 View Post
LoL @ the pics of JPrice'* old install. Man that stuff was rigged.

Have you seen all the new BTL models, Monte? I know the N2 (which Raptor linked) is replacing the old BTL, but the 1k RMS N1 model is said to be more of a SQ sub (similar to the Q). IIRC, Scott said he felt it sounded better than the Q.

I don't have a ton of experience with all sorts of different subs, but my Sundown z15 is the cleanest, tightest sounding sub I've ever had. I know you said you wanted to go sealed, but you could also consider running something like the Sundown SA10 ported and tuned a bit higher for rock. My sub is tuned to 35 hz and it plays rock like a dream. It play up to about 70 hz pretty strong. And, you were mentioning wanting a small box. That'* what I like about Sundown subs. They work well in small enclosures. The SA10 only needs about 1 cube net ported, which is a very small box. Of course, I like clean bass, but also loud. I had a Fi SSD 12 in a sealed box on over 1k watts and it was OK, but ported just gives me the volume I like. I know you said you don't want the over the top loud bass. But, there'* nothing like listening to some rock/metal and feeling every bass drum hit.
Perhaps what I was going for was not the lack of desire for loud bass, but more for getting something that has a great deal of control, accuracy, and refinement. I've been under the impression that you need to put down some pretty serious money to have both.
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Old 12-01-2010, 05:00 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremerevolution View Post
Perhaps what I was going for was not the lack of desire for loud bass, but more for getting something that has a great deal of control, accuracy, and refinement. I've been under the impression that you need to put down some pretty serious money to have both.
I havent found that to be true. Just have to do some wise shopping. There are entry level subs and amps that will give amazing SQ. Like the Alpine Type E'*, which are about $70 if i remember correctly, and the little Rockford and JL amps. I have a little JL e1200 (200w rms) which has been known to have amazing SQ and that amp was under $200 new. But like SPL systems, there are entry level SQ systems. One of those RE, ID, FI, Sundown will put the Alpine Type E'* to shame but they are nice for entry level.
But as said several times. U get what u pay for. MOST OF THE TIME.
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Old 12-01-2010, 06:03 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremerevolution View Post
Perhaps what I was going for was not the lack of desire for loud bass, but more for getting something that has a great deal of control, accuracy, and refinement. I've been under the impression that you need to put down some pretty serious money to have both.
I guess I got lucky with mine. My sub was one that Sundown made a while back. it was their "SQL" sub, which had the ability to get quite loud but was designed to be accurate as well. It was nearly a $400 sub, but I got it at closeout for $200. If you don't mind waiting for a bit, I would consider looking for a quality used sub to come up. I frequent car audio classifieds . org and tons of stuff gets sold there every day. Plenty of reputable private sellers and vendors on there that offer good stuff.

One thing to consider. There is a new company on there called Obsidian Audio. It'* a joint venture with the owner of Sundown and the Owner of Stereo Integrity. They are having a pre-order for their new subs, which come in a 12 and 15. If you order by Dec. 6th, the 12 is only $99 shipped. The owner of SI said they were shooting for something that sounded like the SI Mag v3 (which from searching was along the lines of a Fi Q, loud but accurate) but with a very low price point. It'* rated at 600 RMS, works ported or sealed, and I'm sure will be a great sub for the money. They won't be in until March or so, though.

Here'* their forum
http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/f...play.php?f=163
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