Out of the Box: Pacesetters headers (18 - 800x600 pics)
#31
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Originally Posted by harofreak00
that slit does not go all the way though.. it wont leak.. is it still a flow problem?
these other pipes are outlets, the flow doesnt matter on the outlets does it?
these other pipes are outlets, the flow doesnt matter on the outlets does it?
it is a OUTLET , just like the 2 header collectors of the headers , so no weld on the inside area of the y-pipe is not a issue
i have yet to see the egr pipe cause any horse power issues , also with it sticking in the exhaust flow path it has a little better chance of flowing enough for the egr to work properly
#32
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Eric, what about the weld slag Andrew picked off with his finger? If I recall correctly, he has a catalytic converter on the car, like most cars here do.
Coming from a person (me) that works with thermal dynamics and heat transfer, as well as FEA analysis, I can tell you that welding those seams on the inside is important to make the headers last. Those edges will heat up and flex.
To be honest, I haven't CLOSELY examined the competition, but I can tell you I see issues in the PS headers. Particularly the EGR feed. Why would you design and build a product to increase flow and leave a restriction protruding in the flow path?
Why are you using paper gaskets?
These are honest questions I would ask of anyone. Don't take it personally, I'm just interested in the reasons you chose to do this.
Coming from a person (me) that works with thermal dynamics and heat transfer, as well as FEA analysis, I can tell you that welding those seams on the inside is important to make the headers last. Those edges will heat up and flex.
To be honest, I haven't CLOSELY examined the competition, but I can tell you I see issues in the PS headers. Particularly the EGR feed. Why would you design and build a product to increase flow and leave a restriction protruding in the flow path?
Why are you using paper gaskets?
These are honest questions I would ask of anyone. Don't take it personally, I'm just interested in the reasons you chose to do this.
#33
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Originally Posted by willwren
Eric, what about the weld slag Andrew picked off with his finger? If I recall correctly, he has a catalytic converter on the car, like most cars here do.
Originally Posted by willwren
Coming from a person (me) that works with thermal dynamics and heat transfer, as well as FEA analysis, I can tell you that welding those seams on the inside is important to make the headers last. Those edges will heat up and flex.
To be honest, I haven't CLOSELY examined the competition, but I can tell you I see issues in the PS headers. Particularly the EGR feed. Why would you design and build a product to increase flow and leave a restriction protruding in the flow path?
To be honest, I haven't CLOSELY examined the competition, but I can tell you I see issues in the PS headers. Particularly the EGR feed. Why would you design and build a product to increase flow and leave a restriction protruding in the flow path?
as for flow , i dont really think its gonna hurt the flow enough to cause a loss in power , also with the tube in the exhaust path it has a better chance to get more exhaust gas into the tube for the egr to function with
as for the welding on 1 side or both , ive seen more problems with welding both sides , to much heat changes the temper in the metal , and can weaken it and cause it to crack easier , double welding has been more problematic as far as warranty issues
Originally Posted by willwren
Why are you using paper gaskets?
personally ive always used the stock steel mls gaskets , just put a light coat of ultra copper silicone on bloth sides
Originally Posted by willwren
These are honest questions I would ask of anyone. Don't take it personally, I'm just interested in the reasons you chose to do this.
#34
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It doesn't really matter whether it was weld slag or part of the EGR feed, he picked it loose with his finger. Where would it have gone? Cat. Heating up, and burning through the grid.
What about the pitted flanges, and the past problems with the composite/paper gaskets? Is there anything you can do for the topic author'* issues?
What about the pitted flanges, and the past problems with the composite/paper gaskets? Is there anything you can do for the topic author'* issues?
#35
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he is dealing with joe , so im not sure exactly what the 2 of them have discussed , so i really dont want to go to far into any kind of speculation on stuff between the 2 of them , i only briefly talked with joe about it , which pretty much consisted of him emailing me the link here
as for the gaskets , ive know people to have had them last over 10 years , and ive known them to last 5-10 minutes , alot has to do with making sure the bolts are tq down , and to check them often during the first week to week and half to make sure they are staying tight after the heat cycles
i do like the stock MLS style gaskets better
do i i think there is a issue with the flange , possible , its hard to say from pictures , being coated , anything in the surface stands out more , and pictures can amplify it , will have a problem using it , i think it would be slim , id use it personally
as for the gaskets , ive know people to have had them last over 10 years , and ive known them to last 5-10 minutes , alot has to do with making sure the bolts are tq down , and to check them often during the first week to week and half to make sure they are staying tight after the heat cycles
i do like the stock MLS style gaskets better
do i i think there is a issue with the flange , possible , its hard to say from pictures , being coated , anything in the surface stands out more , and pictures can amplify it , will have a problem using it , i think it would be slim , id use it personally
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Originally Posted by 97 gtp sedan
he is dealing with joe , so im not sure exactly what the 2 of them have discussed , so i really dont want to go to far into any kind of speculation on stuff between the 2 of them , i only briefly talked with joe about it , which pretty much consisted of him emailing me the link here
#37
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Glad to see you have made it Eric and I appreciate you joining up to help discuss any issues or answer any questions that may come up now and in the future. I was thinking about the EGR tube intrusion as well and wondering about the design. I can't remember about the the SLP'*, but it is apparent on the TOG'* that the tube also extends into the primary. Is there any logic to pulling exhaust gases from somewhat mid-stream rather than trying to pull it from the side of the primary, if the EGR feed was flush mounted? Or maybe it does add a little strength or reduce the cost of welding a flush pipe onto the primary? It is interesting that both headers pictured have the tube extending into the primary.
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Originally Posted by 97 gtp sedan
the egr is kinda a finicky , we have had tubes on some headers break off , if they are left flush with the tube , or at the outside of the tube surface , so the tube sticking through the tube gains some strength
If the weld is done correctly, it should be stronger that the actual metal it'* holding. Tests performed on my welds showed that the metal tore/broke before the weld did.
Just a bit of FYI there.
#40
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ill talk with joe on tuesday
its not the weld that fails its the area around it
also the stock manifolds are cast and restrictive , having more back pressure helps to force exhaust gas through the egr port , with headers and a god high flowing exhaust , ive seen alot of cars come up with codes for insufficient egr flow
i know alot of the gtp crowd disable the egr system , but alot of people leave it functioning , and are not after full race set ups , and some will worry about emissions
its not the weld that fails its the area around it
also the stock manifolds are cast and restrictive , having more back pressure helps to force exhaust gas through the egr port , with headers and a god high flowing exhaust , ive seen alot of cars come up with codes for insufficient egr flow
i know alot of the gtp crowd disable the egr system , but alot of people leave it functioning , and are not after full race set ups , and some will worry about emissions