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Old 12-03-2004, 01:06 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by matt95ssei
...like the fact that a terrorist couldn't destroy the WTC because its built to withstand terrorist attacks... Look what that attitude brought to it!!
If you are suggesting that we were just asking for it...then I really don't have anything really nice to say to you (and so I won't say anything at all). The fact is we may have had intelligence, or whatever, but no one expected to have the WTC attacked again, who would?

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We don't need a huge military as we don't have enemies to defend ourselves from.
Yes, and some of the enemies we have, I don't feel we've earned. The fact of the matter is some people will hate us for exisiting. I wish that people would look at what America has done thoughout history to help other countries, including Canada. Sometimes we do have to use the military to get things done. The fact is we are pretty much going to be hated either way. Down the road, had we not gone into Iraq, we would, more likely then not, be hearing about how the greatest military force sat around and did nothing.

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Look at the Columbine shootings and the countless others, there must be a problem with the lack of correct gun control procedures. Sure, blame the parents. Its always the individuals fault, and is in no way a result of the states laws and ideals.
How can you blame the state for an individual'* action? That seems counterintuitive. Sure, we could ban guns. You can write laws against it until the end of time, you can even enforce them with all the force you have, but you can't *make* people do anything. I think most people would relize that if someone really wanted to get a gun, they would no matter what the state had mandated. It'* just like the saying "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". We are a product of our choices and not the state. As far as American ideals being at fault, do you actually know an Americans? Not the sterotype, the people. We are, on the whole (granted there are exceptions to every rule), good people with values and good ideals. We aren't lazy, we weren't hoping for a war (I think we are the furtherest from it), we aren't egocentric with some superiority complex, we care about the homeless and poor in our area and try to help.

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Maybe there is an alternate reality there, maybe you are being subject to propoganda...
Now you are insulting my intelligence. I see how it is, do you think I like the fact that we are at war? Do you think I like that my best friends will be in Iraq if things don't change? The fact is that if there was another way I would have liked to see it happen, but I feel we used up every good option. The UN wasn't getting anywhere. And we weren't going to talk Saddam into being a nice guy...so something had to be done.

There'* way more then my two cents.

--Jeanie.
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Old 12-03-2004, 02:37 PM   #22
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You think we have propoganda down here. How come it has taken the Canadian gvnt so long to allow Fox news up there. Probably one of the only right leaning TV stations. All of the other ones are most left leaning. And you think we have propoganda down here, give me a break. For you to even remotely say anything that we deserved WTC attacks or it was b/c we said it was indestructable it totally out of line. That is a total disgrace.
You think we should follow what the UN says? What about the Oil for Food scandle that is going on now? Annan is a very corrupt man. Part of the reason why those countries are against the Iraq war is because they were receiving money from the Oil for Food program and they didnt want that to stop.
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Old 12-03-2004, 03:47 PM   #23
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Fox news?? come on now.. I read news sources from outside of the country, but since you know my daily habits im sure you could prove me wrong! I read sources such as MSNBC, CBC, Gazetta, BBC, World News, NYT, The Globe, and Janes. So don't try and tell me about reading propaganda. I read other sources and compare them to help decypher what is accurate and what is not.

Now. The WTC was supposed to be a symbol of american economic power, it was built on a massive scale, and built with near indestructablity in mind. The fact is, your government waits for catastrophies to happen before it acts, or it starts a war to divert attention away from the fact they still haven't found the mastermind behind terrorism. They had red lights going off warning them of an imminent terrorist attack. What did Bush do other than retreat to his Texas ranch? I'll leave that for your mind to ponder.

The war against terror has shifted from the goal of routing terrorism out of the world (which im sorry to say will never happen no matter how much money you spend on guns and bombs) to conquering diplomatic enemies which prove profitable to state but can somewhat be argued as a "good will mission".

The Afghan war is the war which actually made sense as there was Al Quada training camps all over the place, and it was proven with hard evidence, and it was sanctioned by the UN. Now, the war in Iraq was based on what, weapons of mass destruction and biological weapons? Or because he was mean to his people? To this date, have they found anything pertaining to these weapons? I didn't think so. The US is mean to its prisoners also, with the death penalty, in its various brutal forms. What is said about that? Nothing because it is an internal affair in your nation so other nations don't get into it. Back to the Iraq war, Im not sure what the new official reason for it is, but im sure its quite transparent.

The war on terror was underminded by Al Quada before it even started. Obviously it has been proven that we are no more safe than we were prior to the Afghan war, and certainly the Iraq war. Although i am glad Canada has yet to be attacked by terrorists, as all we are doing is peacekeeping operations cleaning up the mess the US Army is leaving in its wake.

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For you to even remotely say anything that we deserved WTC attacks or it was b/c we said it was indestructable it totally out of line.
Please.. Show me where i said "americans deserved the WTC attacks". Im very curious to see this, as my monitor is not showing that sentence for some reason, perhaps it isn't there. By the way, i oppose the WTC attacks, but in the mind set of an oppressed (by the US army) middle eastern group could think differently, as it was there only way of getting through to an ignoreant (not listening) government and large number of people.

The US refuses to sign on to so many treaties to make the world cleaner and safer, such as Kyoto, Banning land mines, Banning biological weapons, Banning chemical waepons. Then it turns around on its good will mission of attempting to make the world safer by conquering other nations. It makes no sense to people not in the US.

The only person that has made good arguments against me here is Willwren. His comments are valid, as that is a very good point about Piracy and Privateerism, but what can be said on the other hand about the stockpiled nuclear weapons? What is there purpose, to deter? Or to engage a potential threat when conventional means aren't feasible? What have they proved in this world? The only thing they have proved is that man when armed with powerfull weapons can kill millions of people by the touch of a button.[/quote]
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Old 12-03-2004, 04:12 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by matt95ssei
The only person that has made good arguments against me here is Willwren.
Gee...thanks....
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Old 12-03-2004, 04:29 PM   #25
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What did Bush do other than retreat to his Texas ranch? I'll leave that for your mind to ponder.
You're lacking in homework again, Matt. Even the press that was onboard AirForceOne commented on Bush demanding to be returned to Washington DC. The Secret Service and his closest advisors encouraged him to do otherwise, as DC was obviously targetted. He is fully capable of excercising his offices anywhere in the world.

The US is doing exactly what Jeannie commented on. We're doing what the corrupt, useless, POS United Nations SHOULD be doing, and has done in the past. If the UN were a valid body, we wouldn't be dealing with Iraq or Afghanistan the way we are forced to today.
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Old 12-04-2004, 12:34 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by willwren
Quote:
What did Bush do other than retreat to his Texas ranch? I'll leave that for your mind to ponder.
You're lacking in homework again, Matt. Even the press that was onboard AirForceOne commented on Bush demanding to be returned to Washington DC. The Secret Service and his closest advisors encouraged him to do otherwise, as DC was obviously targetted. He is fully capable of excercising his offices anywhere in the world.

The US is doing exactly what Jeannie commented on. We're doing what the corrupt, useless, POS United Nations SHOULD be doing, and has done in the past. If the UN were a valid body, we wouldn't be dealing with Iraq or Afghanistan the way we are forced to today.
Ain't that the truth. The oil for food corruption notwithstanding, we watched the UN stand by while genocide occured in Africa, and the Balkans. Their doctrine is that of appeasement. Look what happened to England when they tried to succor the ****?

Let'* not forget that Sadam is guilty of countless tens and hundreds of thousands of deaths. Yeah, maybe we should just let him go and restore him to power. Then we can watch as he shows his love to the Iraqi people.

Talk about a bias in the news. I know soldiers there in Iraq, and families who have soldiers over there. The people love and appreciate what we are doing there. It'* only a very small minority who oppose us, and most of those are foreign fighters from neighboring countries.Yet the news focuses upon those few and communicates to the masses that this is how everyone feels about the American soldiers over there.

Balogney! These sick terrorists are even killing their own people. They kill the Iraqi women and children. It is clear the wickedness of their actions, but yet, the Americans are really to blame.... give me a break!

Very well said Will and Jeannie!
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Old 12-05-2004, 05:40 AM   #27
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Well being an American, and DAMN proud of it, and as part of the constitution allowed freedom of speech I'll exercise that right by saying,.......on second thought it'* also my perogative as an American to overlook mindless anti- American drivel, and to turn the other cheek. That I'll do for now!

kudos to Will and P.J. I don't want to turn this into an "Angry American" post, so I'll not say anymore!
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Old 12-05-2004, 04:57 PM   #28
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Thats odd, because i also have a few friends there also, 4 to be exact and they dont even know why they are there. From what they've told me, most Iraqi'* throw stones at them and curse at them and want them to leave.

I guess that could be considered an open hearted welcome in a foreign language..
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Old 12-05-2004, 05:02 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt95ssei
Thats odd, because i also have a few friends there also, 4 to be exact and they dont even know why they are there. From what they've told me, most Iraqi'* throw stones at them and curse at them and want them to leave.

I guess that could be considered an open hearted welcome in a foreign language..
hmmm, taking the word of 4 of your friends that don't know why their there,..hmmm that'* a great argument.
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Old 12-05-2004, 05:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt95ssei
Thats odd, because i also have a few friends there also, 4 to be exact and they dont even know why they are there. From what they've told me, most Iraqi'* throw stones at them and curse at them and want them to leave.

I guess that could be considered an open hearted welcome in a foreign language..
4 friends huh? So that must make it so. I think it is rather odd myself, because I know more than 4 over there and they have reported the progress that is being made and tells us not to believe what we see on the news because it isn't an accurate depiction.

This thread has the makings of getting ugly, so with that being said- to each his own.
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