4T80E/Turbo-S/C... TIME FOR A NEW THREAD? - Page 19 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 11-02-2007, 05:46 PM   #181
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Ask and ye shall receive! All machined, plumbed, drilled, planed, doweled, and ready to install as soon as I get some longer bolts!









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Old 11-02-2007, 06:00 PM   #182
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How did you seal the inlet and outlet pipes into the SC exhanger
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Old 11-02-2007, 06:08 PM   #183
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And will uncooled air find it'* way around the end of the core through the wastegate relief and into the LIM?
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Old 11-02-2007, 10:38 PM   #184
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Looking at the intercooler pics I'm quite concerned. I don't recall what type of wood you used but depending on the type it can be quite pourious. Also depending on the type could cause sealing issues from expanding and contracting. I understand that wood spacers are a 'old school' trick but you have to choose and setup wisely. The intercooler should be sealed with some type of coating...

I'm also concerned about the core you are using not only for performance but reliability too. First - The core chosen is been known to fail, actually its really just a matter of time till it fails. I'd look into a different core at least use a aluminum probe core or better yet IIRC ZZP now uses an early 90'* Mazda 626 core and has been proven to work very well.

Secondly - The placement of the core is not optimum also allowing air to bypass the core (via the hole for the boost bypass valve).

Third What are you doing with for your PVC situation? They look just open to the LIM? Not exactly what problems will arise from that with the twin-charged setup like that but I perceive it not to be good.
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Old 11-02-2007, 10:55 PM   #185
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Quote:
Looking at the intercooler pics I'm quite concerned. I don't recall what type of wood you used but depending on the type it can be quite pourious. Also depending on the type could cause sealing issues from expanding and contracting. I understand that wood spacers are a 'old school' trick but you have to choose and setup wisely. The intercooler should be sealed with some type of coating...

I'm also concerned about the core you are using not only for performance but reliability too. First - The core chosen is been known to fail, actually its really just a matter of time till it fails. I'd look into a different core at least use a aluminum probe core or better yet IIRC ZZP now uses an early 90'* Mazda 626 core and has been proven to work very well.

Secondly - The placement of the core is not optimum also allowing air to bypass the core (via the hole for the boost bypass valve).

Third What are you doing with for your PVC situation? They look just open to the LIM? Not exactly what problems will arise from that with the twin-charged setup like that but I perceive it not to be good.
Hardwood is not porous. It should hold 15 psi no problem.
Silicone should seal it up nicely or you can use stock gaskets.
The core he has chosen is known to fail due to heat and usually is it used with aluminum that conducts heat very well but wood does not conduct and should keep things much cooler.
A little bit of bypass is not any different from other intercoolers on the market.

You must mean PCV or Positive Crankcase ventilation.......so what'* the problem?

Please fill in your signature so we know what you are driving.
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:02 PM   #186
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Paul we hit the button about the same time! LOL! Here'* my response, very similar to yours:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1SSEi4U2NV
Looking at the intercooler pics I'm quite concerned. I don't recall what type of wood you used but depending on the type it can be quite pourious. Also depending on the type could cause sealing issues from expanding and contracting. I understand that wood spacers are a 'old school' trick but you have to choose and setup wisely. The intercooler should be sealed with some type of coating....
Thank you for your concern. The wood is kiln dried and hard as hell. If I seal it with any kind of liquid sealer, it will expand again. I expect some slight shrinkage and will be retorquing as needed until it is set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1SSEi4U2NV
I'm also concerned about the core you are using not only for performance but reliability too. First - The core chosen is been known to fail, actually its really just a matter of time till it fails. I'd look into a different core at least use a aluminum probe core or better yet IIRC ZZP now uses an early 90'* Mazda 626 core and has been proven to work very well.
I have heard and understand the failure of this core. IIRC, this core has always come apart at the solder joints. In an aluminum core box, the temperature of the surounding metal can easily exceed 250degF. It is likely heat that causes the joints to fail, not pressure. The core will not be subject to the extreme temp differentials in the wood core box. On the contrary, the core temp will not likely fluctuate any more than the temperature of the water flowing thru it. Anyway, I don't plan to put any water in it until it has been tested for quite some time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1SSEi4U2NV
Secondly - The placement of the core is not optimum also allowing air to bypass the core (via the hole for the boost bypass valve).
I put it there b/c the blower outlet is toward the front of the LIM. Also, I plan to use the bypass in a couple different ways and placed the core where it is intentionally. At PT when there is no pressure in the manifold, who cares if the air bypasses. besides, you are assuming the air is being pushed by the blower, remember, the air is being DRAWN IN by the open intake valve. The shortest path will be thru the core. Once the manifold is pressuized, more than 90% of the air will pass across the core.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1SSEi4U2NV
Third What are you doing with for your PVC situation? They look just open to the LIM? Not exactly what problems will arise from that with the twin-charged setup like that but I perceive it not to be good.
The core is tight in the box. there is actually about .010" crush. The pcv holes are inboard of the edges of the core. Once it is crushed, the crankcase vent holes are sealed by the core from the surrounding space in the LIM. if it does create any vacuum in the crankcase, I'll put it in the v.c.
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:11 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000SilverBullet
How did you seal the inlet and outlet pipes into the SC exhanger
I used thin wall vinyl tubing that is 5/8" ID and 3/4" OD. I machined the slots for the tubes with a 3/4" round bit and left a touch material. When the plates come together, they squeeze the hose around the tubes. I'll use a little silicone to make sure. I'll use silicone b/t the plates. I am also considering no gaskets under or above the corebox. The wood will crush and seal quite nicely. I have a smoker I will use to check for vac leaks before I decide for sure to use gaskets. A gasket is just a place to blow out...
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:46 PM   #188
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Paul- Hardwood or not wood is a pourous material. There is a huge margin here but its is still there... Being pourous - I was concerned with moisture, outside elements, and exhaust gasses (PCV). I wasn't worried about pressure causing sealing problems just about part of the core retaining more moisture then another part basically warping and causing a vac leak.

Jeff- I didn't know the core was actually 'crushed' between the sandwich. Causing the PCV passages to be complete. As I see what your talking about with the bypass it just seems that if your going to all this work why not make it cool the best you can. (going back to if you can use a proven better core why not?)

Even using wood as the halfs I still believe that you are going to have problems with that core falling apart. I've seen full thermoplastic halfs in a sandwish type IC with aluminum cores have problems with there fins falling off from M90 air discharge alone.
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:59 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1SSEi4U2NV
Paul- Hardwood or not wood is a pourous material. There is a huge margin here but its is still there... Being pourous - I was concerned with moisture, outside elements, and exhaust gasses (PCV). I wasn't worried about pressure causing sealing problems just about part of the core retaining more moisture then another part basically warping and causing a vac leak.

Jeff- I didn't know the core was actually 'crushed' between the sandwich. Causing the PCV passages to be complete. As I see what your talking about with the bypass it just seems that if your going to all this work why not make it cool the best you can. (going back to if you can use a proven better core why not?)

Even using wood as the halfs I still believe that you are going to have problems with that core falling apart. I've seen full thermoplastic halfs in a sandwish type IC with aluminum cores have problems with there fins falling off from M90 air discharge alone.
One can easily remove the fins from an aluminum core, just by pulling at it with a screwdriver and they come out in onelong string... another reason I chose the brass core, the fins are lot more rigid, as well as my mian reason, furthur apart for less pressure drop across the core. After running it for a while, I will pressure test the core before putting water thru it.
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:19 AM   #190
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It look like you have thought about this - though I'm still concerned, well I'll say curious. Are you going to test temp drop from the IC? I'm intrested to see how close it performs to others on the market.
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