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Old 01-11-2004, 02:12 AM   #61
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That doesnt explain first generation land crushers.
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Old 01-11-2004, 02:19 AM   #62
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Old 01-11-2004, 02:21 AM   #63
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stand corrected.. maybe it was first world war.. lol.. but they are second now.. not 3rd.
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Old 01-11-2004, 02:24 AM   #64
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I read another that put them 4th. I think the standings bounce around alot. I know GM and Toyota have had several strategic alliances in the last 10 years, and that GM now owns a good chunk (30% or so) of Toyota, but things haven't always been rosy between them.

The 4runner was a direct attack against GM'* *-10 Blazer/Jimmy plans. Corporate spying got really nasty back in the 80'*.
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Old 01-11-2004, 03:18 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1992 trofeo
That doesnt explain first generation land crushers.
Okay, I give...What the hell is a land crusher? Some sort of mining equipment? Sounds like something that'* on that largest tractors in the world show on Discovery...
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Old 01-11-2004, 04:10 AM   #66
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lol.. land cruiser.. it came with a diesel or a chebby 3fitty.
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Old 01-11-2004, 04:49 AM   #67
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Here is my concensus

Vibe
Asstec
Cavalier
Sunfire
Silverado
Malibu
Malibu Maxx
C6
New GP
CTS
Aveo
GTO - has no originality.
Saturn lineup
I'll spare the rest.

This list I composed because GM has failed to make the modern car styling.
Other car companies such as Toyota, Honda, Kia, BMW also have to.

My point is that all these companies design a car that reflects another car on the market whether it'* in the same class or not. The people that design cars don't know what modern is anymore because they base it on some stupid square prototypes thinking that it looks good.

Most of the GM line-up looks like a pile of American crap.
The same goes for every other company in the world.

You are all trying to catch our attention, all your catching is the back of our heads.
Once Toyota released their "small" cars, look who comes stumbling behind.. Chevrolet.
Let'* introduce our Aveo to compete with the Corrolla. I am a firm believer that the Corrolla bests most of GM'* styling cues.

GM has gained worldwide recognition for everything they have done in the past, but when it comes to the future all they have is to become like every other car company out there. Like someone had mentioned earlier, they ruined the Grand prix'* trademarked stance by coming out with this new one. Another thing I have noticed is changing the colour of interior materials. GM stilll uses shitty plastic compounds. I would prefer any Toyota passenger car to a Chevrolet passenger car.

Now some may argue that GM has good engines. GOOD FOR THEM. Good engines how? Well you have the Supercharged L67, the previous LS1, the L27 etc. all designed for their specific uses. And all with their downsides. Most "normal" people nowadays want a quite comfortable ride, and the 3.8L is just a tad noisy for most people. The 3.4L is a good performer but sucks gas like no other. Now, Toyota has come out with their mid-sized 3.3L V6 with 225hp and 240lb ft of twist, what'* it'* fuel economy like? try 23/30. Better then the 3400, the 3800, and the new 3500, oh and it'* not high revving either. GM is using old technology which is not gaining them anything anymore.

The new Honda Accord is a huge leap for Honda, and it is definatly better then most of GM'* fair priced line-up. 240hp, very nice interior, good-looking exterior, and very very good quality. GM has the ugly Malibu with a hollowed look.

Now, I know I blabbed on, expressing what i feel. And if you didn't understand what I said, you don't deserve to live. (im joking) to summarize. every company is trying to compete with each other by releasing similar products, Push-rod engine'* are out-dated, and loud, if GM wants to redesign their cars, redesign an engine to. Get up-to-date with all the other companies who are a wad ahead, in all areas.

gracias.
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Old 01-11-2004, 02:26 PM   #68
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I'll agree with the styling of most of your list, with the exception of the Silverado (imho, it'* far better than the alternatives), the CTS, and the GTO.

So my question to you is what is MODERN STYLING? Who determines it? It'* just somebody'* opinion, and it starts a trend. But is it EVERYONE'* opinion? Or does GM get feedback from concept vehicles to determine the next style? Can they please everyone?

I do agree that they destroyed the GP. Both in driveablility and looks. The good news is that they went the right direction with the GXP at the same time

Now the drivetrains. My L67 is quiet (at least it was stock), and comfortable. Smooth as silk. It'* a pushrod engine, and gets better mileage than the 3.3 V6 from Toyota that you mention. And mine is 10 years older than that.

In many respects, the pushrod (OHV) engines are as much personal preference as the exterior styling. To a point, the customers do have influence on the drivetrains as well. I personally believe FOR THE MOST PART (there are always exceptions) that the OHV configuration is much more reliable over time than the OHC.

Just had to argue a few points
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Old 01-11-2004, 02:53 PM   #69
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Lets give the friendly 46% of cars sold are by GM reminder... Like a said, Theyre doing somthing right. I WONT buy an OHC engine in a gasoline style engine for my trucks, DUH.. So why should I buy one for any of my other vehicles?
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Old 01-11-2004, 03:54 PM   #70
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Time for me to chime in here:

Some people probably define modern styling by what magazines say. Others just look at a particular brand and say "thats what everything should look like".

My opinions:
Vibe - never really liked the body style of these types of vechicles, just because you CAN mix a car and an SUV doesnt mean you SHOULD.
Asstec - top 5 ugliest cars in production
Cavalier - decent for a domestic compact, i see alot of them on campus
Sunfire - same as the cav, chick car
Silverado - Looks cool, ive never had the chance to drive one so i wont judge
Malibu - i never have liked the malibu to be honest, my friends' mom has one and it feels kinda cheap inside. I would just feel like a pansy driving it.
Malibu Maxx - isnt this the station wagon version??? station wagons went out of style a LONG time ago, and I hope they never come back
C6 - id buy one
New GP - didnt like it at first, but the front is growin on me
CTS - a step in the right direction for caddy
Aveo - never heard of it
GTO - see C6
Saturn lineup - Honestly I wouldnt buy anything saturn makes. I guess im not in their demographic.

After reading all 4 pages of this post, I think some people have gotten confused and are posting about whether GM is perfect or not. No car company is perfect, or ever will be. Is GM making steps in the right direction? Yes, I think they are. I dont agree with all of the changes that they are making, but hey, you have to try something to see if you will like it or not. Innovation doesnt come from staying the same, it comes from change. Sure GM may not be at the top of the heap in EVERY category, but they are making steps to get there.
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