Maybe if we had a better public transporation system we wouldn't be in this mess.

Maybe if urban developers would mix commercial and residential zones people wouldn't have to drive as much.

Western Europe has it down to a science. Why can't we be like that?

Because most of our country is not urban, And I'm sure as hell not paying for your bus. Therefore your city needs to come up with its' own transportation scheme, Let'* see a city gov't come up with that.


What people seem to be missing is that you can't magically raise mpgs, and when car makers do raise mpgs no one buys the car. Look at the Geos, Who here owns one? Who has ever owned one? You guys even know what an EV1 is?

Hybrids are a patch, not a solution. Fuel Cell cars are not a solution. They require a whole new infrastructure, Who'* going to pay for that?

Gonneville, While I do like the concepts I've seen for an electronic valvetrain, Who'* going to maintain that car? Do you see the average tinkerer buying one? Have any idea what all those solenoid valves will cost? You know who tells the average guy what car to buy? That'* right, The tinkerers. We embrace a car and the masses follow. Look at how many Camaros got sold after the drag racing scene picked them up.

two bonnies, GM only makes the cars they car sell. They already learned from the Geo experiment that they're not going to make money off a 40mpg car that seats four and has some pretty good pep. Burn them once and its' their fault, But I bet you won't have the chance to burn them twice.


I think a lot of people here need to realize what they're telling GM by owning their car. GM knows you have the car, They know people in the secondary market want a large highway cruiser type car with 15mpg in the city. If you really cared about fuel economy or enviromental impact you'd build your own electric. You don't, So what you're really saying is that you want every car buyer to pay extra so you can save a little cash on gas.

Most of the auto traffic comes from the urban/suburban areas though.

Yeah, and most of the people coughing on exhaust are urban too. Why mess with something that works?

Because they are ugly as sin, my guess. I've driven these micro cars and many of them are quite unpleasant to drive.

Jsut remind me here, how are GM'* sales doing? and Ford? And compared to Toyota and Honda?

I would submit to you that GM is actually making cars that they CANNOT sell. The market has shifted, like it or not. I much prefer a GXP Bonneville to a crappy smart car, but I am apparently a dying breed, other wise GM would have never cancelled the <Bonneville> (or insert favorite car here).

I think this debate needs to be thought of in terms of gas prices first. When the average consumer is hit with the eventual $4.00/gallon gas, new ideas about how we do things and arrange our society will lead to market changes. Whichever company is innovative and creative enough to capture that market early wins (Microsoft anyone?).

Based on what you've heard from GM, does it sound like they will be this company???

yeah, X2

i will NEVER ride a bus, and even if i had to, i bus does not come out to where i live.


The reason why Buses work over in Europe is because they ate like 1/8th the Size of the USA. (land size)

We are to spread out. to many miles. Public transportation will not work ever where in the USA.

Yes. Instead of dropping insane amounts of money into making a gasoline engine that won't sell they're moving to other fuels, esp EV.

two bonnies- ??? :? micro cars???

what are you talking about, you need to watch TopGear sometime

It was a BMW i think or a Audi... it was nice looking. Fast, and 40MPG

Part of the problem is, we are AMericans. We are stubborn. We know what we like and that'* what we want. Fuel costs and emissions aren't limited to vehicles either, they are just the easiest target, especially for the rich. They're houses use a substatial amount of fossil fuels each year as well, and emit exhausts from those fuels. But, do you think they are going to attack those people who are heating mansions?

Granted, emmisions from housing are nowhere near those from vehicles, but where are the regulators in that market?

There'* no easy answer to this issue, unfortunately. People resist change. Even if they created an alternate fuel vehicle that could be mass produced and do 9'* in the quarter, people would complain that it doesn't feel or sound right without the IC engine and not buy it.

They'll come up with something. Those of us who were around for the energy crisis in the 70'* remember the nightmares and belly-aching that caused. But we survived it..

Not the city type, eh?

Each city should come up with a better public transportation system to reduce the amount of cars on the road. Sure, England is a smaller country, but we still have major metro areas around this country that could implement similar systems.

Bike paths, rails, buses, etc. Detroit for example has one bus system that hardly gets used. I live 5 miles away from work. I'd happily ride my bike there on a nice day if the roads weren't so dangerous. I'd also take a bus or some kind of train system if it was available and efficient. There is nothing remotely like that over there.

If we can get away from our huge dependence on oil then we wouldn't see such problems like GM is having. Gas is expensive in many Euro nations ... but they have so many alternatives to get around that it'* not a huge deal.

It'll also make people less fat, cause they would start walking and biking to places instead of getting in their cars to drive somewhere one block away.