GM halts all Future RWD Models due to new Cafe Standards - Page 2 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Lounge For casual talk about things unrelated to General Motors. In other words, off-topic stuff. And anything else that does not fit Section Description.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-10-2007, 09:35 PM   #11
Senior Member
Expert Gearhead
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Posts: 20,892
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Jim W is on a distinguished road
Default

Well at least SOMEONE is trying to be responsible. But yes, you are correct.
Jim W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2007, 09:46 PM   #12
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Farmington, Minnesota =MWBF '05 SURVIVOR= =CEBF '06 SURVIVOR= =August '06 COTM=
Posts: 9,130
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
LakevilleSSEi is on a distinguished road
Default

Trucks are taking the hit.....Diesel light duty'* especially.......The 08 line of Dodge diesel'* are ready for it, but the tag definantly went up. The Ford diesel can't even run on next years supposed diesel. Apparrently they're changing it again.

I thought the GM was charging a "Gas Guzzler" tax on the GTO and such.....because they couldn't get the mileage requirements out of them?
LakevilleSSEi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2007, 09:50 PM   #13
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 67
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
95LHS is on a distinguished road
Default

CAFE standards have nothing to do with responsibility. They're a "feel-good" solution to a problem that doesn't exist.


By artificially controlling MPG requirements, the government ensures two things:

1.) The automakers are going to start producing cars buyers don't want (the focus is now on meeting the regulations, not buyer'* needs)

2.) The cars that we DO want are about to become a lot more expensive. Fuel efficiency costs money.

There'* really no benefit for anyone in the end, except for a false sense that we all did the right thing. CAFE spells disaster for the American automakers as we know them.



Just what problem are we trying to solve anyways? Last I knew gasoline was cheaper in America than just about anywhere. If we're going to get serious about weening ourselves off of foreign oil, then we've got to make a better attempt than this *coughethanolcough*
95LHS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2007, 10:13 PM   #14
Senior Member
Certified Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,928
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BonneMeMN is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakevilleSSEi
I thought the GM was charging a "Gas Guzzler" tax on the GTO and such.....because they couldn't get the mileage requirements out of them?
Manual Corvettes and GTOs have had CAGS on their shifters, and this helps them avoid the gas guzzler tax on the manual. In reality, these cars get phenomenal mileage on the highway for what they can do powerwise.
BonneMeMN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2007, 10:25 PM   #15
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Granville, Ohio ~NEBF '07 Survivor~
Posts: 5,001
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
petraman is on a distinguished road
Default

If GM starts researching Hybrids instead of far-fetched electric and fuel cell cars, they'd meet their new goal easily
petraman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2007, 11:06 PM   #16
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NEBF:06,07 | NYBF:06,07 | ONBF:06,07 | CNBF:06 & more............
Posts: 8,029
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bandit is on a distinguished road
Default

yup... and this is why i think the Bonneville will be the last GM car i will own..

On to Dodge...
bandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2007, 11:09 PM   #17
Senior Member
Posts like a Corvette
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 1,539
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Puddy46 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonneMeMN
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakevilleSSEi
I thought the GM was charging a "Gas Guzzler" tax on the GTO and such.....because they couldn't get the mileage requirements out of them?
Manual Corvettes and GTOs have had CAGS on their shifters, and this helps them avoid the gas guzzler tax on the manual. In reality, these cars get phenomenal mileage on the highway for what they can do powerwise.
You've got that right. 29 mpg on the highway is better than what alot of turbo-4 and 6 cylinder cars get nowadays. My advice, if you ever want to get a new performance car, is to get it now, cause this is the new end to the new muscle car era. Just as things were getting revved up, they get killed.
Puddy46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 03:00 AM   #18
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,816
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
GonneVille is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95LHS
If we're going to get serious about weening ourselves off of foreign oil, then we've got to make a better attempt than this *coughethanolcough*
Ethanol is a pipe dream. We could never produce enough to actually make a difference.
Hydrogen is even more ridiculous, as it would cost trillions to produce the infrastructure for it, and it only moves the energy demand to the power plants, which also burn fossil fuels.
Hybrids are the obvious way to go, but the logical choice for the fuel-burning motor is diesel, and the ever-changing small diesel emissions laws make it impossible for automakers to complete a development run between rules changes.
BMW is probably our big break for the answer to massive fuel mileage and emissions improvements. Their new engines use an electromechanically actuated valvetrain that makes massive horsepower possible because of the near infinite adjustability of the mix and timing. But they haven't taken the tech to the logical end. Even an educated layman like me can see that the adjustability of the motor could be used to wring incredible mileage out of the motor as well as incredible performance. With an O2 sensor for each cylinder, the mix and timing could be optimized for the individual cylinder, and you could even shut down cylinders when they aren't needed. You could make a V8 motor that could outperform anything on the market today, right up to the most exotic supercars, then settle down to cruise on less fuel than a 3cyl Metro, on the same gas.
Combine it with hybrid drivetrains, and voila, 100mpg car.

Tell you what though, you want to make a much bigger difference? There are 50 trucks on this lot right now where I'm spending the night. Every single one, including mine, is idling so the drivers can run their heaters. Diesel generators are available that would allow us drivers to shut down our engines and use 1/20th the amount of fuel over our required ten-hour break, while still running bunk heaters, block heaters, lights, and several thousand watts of electrical power for TVs, microwaves, refrigerators, and yes, laptop computers. Imagine, several million trucks, idiling at least ten hours, at least five nights a week. Now, mandate all new trucks with sleepers to come equipped with generators. Mandate a program to install generators on all currently running fleet trucks. Institute a subsidy for owner/ops to install generators, damn sure they all want to save fuel, just a matter of whether they have the money to spend now to save money later.
Imagine how much fuel that would save, and how much pollution would NOT be pumped into the atmosphere.
Now go to your local truckstop and look at those stupid IdleAire systems that are supposed to provide heat/AC and electricity so you can shut down your motor. Hmm, $3.00 per hour. $30 per night. Or $20 worth of fuel to idle, and only and unenforceable anti-idle law to sway me. This is what our current administration thinks will solve the problem. Yeah, uh huh.
GonneVille is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 10:41 AM   #19
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern WV
Posts: 456
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
two bonnies is on a distinguished road
Default

I think the bigger point here is that this exact attitude is why US auto producers are in the shape that they are in. They lost the innovative and creative spirit they had in the 50s and 60s.

The answer to the challenge is to innovate and create. Not sit back and rant. The Japanese are leading the way on hybrids and alternatives and they innovate and create cars that people (not me, but many people) want. The point is, instead of looking at this as a challenge that could reap enormous market share through the re-birth of the US auto industry, top execs sit back and moan and groan like the 400 pound fat guy that just had a heart attack and doesn't understand why he can't keep eating Big Macs.

It'* attitude. And, sadly, GM and Ford have lost it. This is really a tragedy given the fact that the US automakers excel in styling. I love the look of Pontiacs, but I am sure that rising gas prices mean that when one of the Bonnevilles die, it will be replaced with a crappy, blandly styled, 40mpg "everybody" car. Why couldn't GM come out with a big V6/V8 hyrbid, let'* say like...Lexus???

Attitude.
two bonnies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 10:49 AM   #20
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NEBF:06,07 | NYBF:06,07 | ONBF:06,07 | CNBF:06 & more............
Posts: 8,029
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bandit is on a distinguished road
Default

two bonnies. Well Wrote

Yup, thats why im liking Dodge a lot better now. RWD, Big V8. Lots of Power... Cant go wrong.

And theres cars over in Europe that get like 40MPG and make like 350HP and go 0-60 in under 6sec... just that USA doesn't want then for some reason
bandit is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Indian and the Cafe Purplehazeir Lounge 2 01-27-2010 08:44 AM
All New RWD Buick Park Avenue! And Riviera (56K warning!) Buickman104 Lounge 15 04-13-2007 03:04 PM
Myspace Cafe' Jason1351 Lounge 3 05-20-2006 05:45 PM
what are the standards!?!? harofreak00 Lounge 4 10-03-2004 05:11 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:26 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.