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Old 10-23-2006, 04:42 PM   #31
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I just sat down and reviwed some of the video from WCBF06.

Zilla is spinning for at least the first 15 feet and spins the tires no less than one full turn on the 1-2 shift.

The torque curve on the series 1 is flat from off idle to past peak.

Flat = less than 5% from peak.
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Old 10-23-2006, 04:44 PM   #32
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Let me Key in here, I drove pretty much every modded S2 car at WCBF including mine with the 3.4 that ran a [email protected]
Let me tell you.
BIll had my *** until the 1/8th EASY
I drove his car, it ******* pulls like a monster, i cant explain it..its insane
The 4T60-E actually might be a stronger trany, try that one on for size eh?
The only reason WHY the 60 fails in the S1 L67 is because of the sheer ammount of insane tourque 1st to 2nd, Very strong trany however, Smaller parts inside, less weight to move around, less power wasted IMO

I can't explain it, he has created a monster.
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Old 10-23-2006, 05:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
You didn't read a thing above, did you? How can you trap at your potential when you're spinning the tires at the 2nd gear shift? Yes, my car DOES make that much torque. It has SCARED the attendee'* of WCBF with the low end grunt it has. I can beat every S2 L67 on the West Coast off the line. Not an empty claim either.

You see, you weren't there, and they were.
How much do you honestly think spinning at the shift hurt your trap speed. I drove my dads GTP spinning ALL THE WAY to the 1000' and it still trapped 110mph. You are still gaining speed while spinning, just not quite as much as if the tires were gripping. I'm not saying the shift didn't hurt your trap speed, but what I'm saying is the difference between your trap speed with traction and with it spinning at your shifts, is negligable.


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Series II has A LOT stronger trans. I have cars with 4t60'* in them, they are junk compared to a 4t65. I burn up all the damn gears in my 3.1 car...all it tells me is the trans is weak. Blowing out your small differentials tells me that exact same thing as well. Have you compared the 4t65'* HD diff to yours? Its WAY bigger.
My diff is much stronger now. You're missing a key point I made above. We shift at a much more damaging point in the hp/tq curves than the S2.
I know your diff is a lot stronger now, but when you broke it (wasn't it the diff housing anyways...not the diff???) it was significantly smaller and weaker than the Series II diff that is holding up in 9 second, 150mph trap cars.


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With equal traction, the SII car is going to have you the whole way. The only reason you beat him was due to traction or launching differences.
? Traction or launching differences? I broke loose. Launch and 2nd. He DIDN'T and we were running SIDE BY SIDE.

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I realize you had "traction issues" off the line. And he didn't. You know what that tells me, HE WASN'T LAUNCHING AS HARD AS HE COULD'VE.
You're kidding me, right? This is SHADD. He launches his car as hard as he can EVERY CHANCE HE GETS. He'* one of the most accomplished and experienced track hounds on the West Coast, and even STARTED a track in Washington. Again, you weren't there, so you wouldn't know. But I don't make BS claims, particularly when there are so many personal witnesses on this Forum. What I stated is true. Deal with it.
Do you have the timeslip for the pass? I'd really like to see it. I'm telling you, if you both could launch your cars flat out off the line he will take you everytime. Like I said, I don't doubt that you outlaunched him. I do doubt, that with unlimited traction, you would outlaunch him, because the fact of the matter is, traction is the only reason you outlaunched him IMO. I know that you stating that you outlaunched him is true, I understand that completely, the fact of your car being able to take his car to the 1/8 mile is B.*. IMO with equal traction, and definately the claim that your car runs 13'*.

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Yup, your 14.6 runs were witnessed by over a dozen members. I agree with you. But your traction issues really don't make as much of a difference as you think. I'm sure those members will tell me you were spinning, and I'm sure they'll also tell me you were running 14.6. Spinning almost always gives you a higher trap speed too. Put some slicks on it and watch as you get 14.5'* all day.
Spinning OFF THE LINE almost always produces a higher trap. Spinning at the SECOND GEAR shift is like treading water. You lose time and trap speed.
As I pointed out before, how much do you really think you lost???? I garuntee you it wasn't any more than a half mph or so. You don't lose as much as you think when you are spinning and already moving. The trap speed increase I was referring to was about off the line, since you claim you were spinning off the line as well. Based on how bad you say you were spinning, I'd imagine it inflated your trap speed quite a bit, and unless you spun from your 1-2 shift through the traps, it more than made up for what you lost on your 1-2 shift.


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I never said you didn't have lack of traction, I believe you did (I mean your running a damn 2.2" pulley), I also believe that with a trap like that, its not as bad as you think. Remember, I'm the guy running mid 12'* on street tires, I know about traction issues and I know that even I would be hard pressed to drop 6 tenths with traction, even though my tires spin from a 50mph roll and I don't get traction until somewhere around the 330' mark and thats at Norwalk. My tires aren't breaking loose at the 1-2 shift, they're still spinning, they spin right through the 1-2 shift and keep on going. I also understand that your car is heavier than my L36 GP, thats a given. But what I am saying is, if my almost stock L36 in a car that isn't THAT much ligher can take you to the 1/8, then I don't see any reason at all why an L67 car with equal mods as you wouldn't walk all over you up and down. Because it would. Gearing and weight does make a bit of a differnence, but the torque and power difference of an L67 vs. L36 more than makes up for it.
Shawn, call it a 2.0" pulley. Not a 2.2".

You obviously have NFC about how the power of a S1 is delivered. Out West, we didn't either until 2004. This is the 3rd year in a row with BOTH of my cars that I beat all the S2'* off the line with LESS mods than some of them.
OK, so its a 2.0 pulley, obviously traction issues, I understand this. I'm not saying you don't. I understand completely the powerband of a Series I. I have more experience with them then you seem to think. I don't doubt that you have a lot more experience, but from my experiences I know pretty well how the power is delievered.

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My advice to you is to experience it for yourself before you make your theorized claims. In the meantime, maybe you should just sit back and watch the WITNESSES from Woodburn this Summer chime in.

That is, assuming they feel like arguing with your expert-ness. This topic is WAY off topic, thankyouverymuch.
Are you not reading my replies or what???? How many times do I have to tell you, I know there are witnesses. I know they will tell me that you beat him to the 1/8 mile, I don't doubt that one bit. I do doubt however that with perfect traction you'd have even a chance much past the 330'. They can chime in all they want and all they'll tell me is what you already have....

I also realize its way off topic, but when people make BS claims about their 92mph car that can run 13'*, I'm not gonna let people just sit around a believe it because you are Mr "I have 35000 posts so they'll listen to what I say." It has been pissing me off lately that just because you have a stupid amount of posts, you feel you can just tell people whatever you want and they'll believe it even though a lot of what i've seen from you lately has been a big pile of ****. I was just discussing that with another member of this forum at MGM that seemed to have the same feelings as me.
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Old 10-23-2006, 05:14 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSEimatt93
Let me Key in here, I drove pretty much every modded S2 car at WCBF including mine with the 3.4 that ran a [email protected]
Let me tell you.
BIll had my A$$ until the 1/8th EASY
I drove his car, it f*** pulls like a monster, i cant explain it..its insane
The 4T60-E actually might be a stronger trany, try that one on for size eh?
The only reason WHY the 60 fails in the S1 L67 is because of the sheer ammount of insane tourque 1st to 2nd, Very strong trany however, Smaller parts inside, less weight to move around, less power wasted IMO

I can't explain it, he has created a monster.
Like I've been telling Bill. An L67 car with equal mods. Once you get all the stuff he has on his car, I'd bet you won't think that anymore.

I'm also not sure how the 4t60 would be a stronger tranny just because its lighter??? Yes, it probably has less power loss than the 4t65 but that doesn't make it stronger, bigger heavier parts make it stronger. Lighter parts will be a lot easier to break. If you take the two apart and set them next to each other, yes there are a lot of parts that are very similar, but you'll also see why the 4t65 is so much stronger, there are some BIG differences.

Also, what exactly is the final gearing in Greenzilla?
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Old 10-23-2006, 05:18 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbtk2
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSEimatt93
Let me Key in here, I drove pretty much every modded S2 car at WCBF including mine with the 3.4 that ran a [email protected]
Let me tell you.
BIll had my A$$ until the 1/8th EASY
I drove his car, it f*** pulls like a monster, i cant explain it..its insane
The 4T60-E actually might be a stronger trany, try that one on for size eh?
The only reason WHY the 60 fails in the S1 L67 is because of the sheer ammount of insane tourque 1st to 2nd, Very strong trany however, Smaller parts inside, less weight to move around, less power wasted IMO

I can't explain it, he has created a monster.
Like I've been telling Bill. An L67 car with equal mods. Once you get all the stuff he has on his car, I'd bet you won't think that anymore.

Also, what exactly is the final gearing in Greenzilla?
2.97

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Old 10-23-2006, 05:39 PM   #36
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I was told that the et will not alway reflect the elapsed mph because some cars deliver their power down low and that allows them to cover the "first half" quicker and lose steam but still get respectable times because of that even tho the mph is different. Same goes for the car with more power up high.

I know this because I've seen Top Fuelers blow up at the half way point and still get 10'* with a elapsed speed of 60-75 mph.

Maybe this is related to the times of Willwren or am I mistaken?
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Old 10-23-2006, 06:05 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuelforthesoul1999
I was told that the et will not alway reflect the elapsed mph because some cars deliver their power down low and that allows them to cover the "first half" quicker and lose steam but still get respectable times because of that even tho the mph is different. Same goes for the car with more power up high.

I know this because I've seen Top Fuelers blow up at the half way point and still get 10'* with a elapsed speed of 60-75 mph.

Maybe this is related to the times of Willwren or am I mistaken?
And that is true to a certain extent. There isn't a huge difference, but a car with more lowend power will trap lower than a car with more topend power, but there is only so much difference. In the case you're talking about, the reason they trapped 75mph is because they had a 4 second car and were slowing down with the chute open and whatnot. You could look at their 1/8 mile time and see they are trapping more than their 1/4.

Generally, a 100mph trapping car should touch high 13'*. Our cars make more lowend power so the might do a few mph slower, and some turbo cars and stuff like that might be going a few mph faster in the high 13'*. But the difference, at least in that range (it varies a bit more with faster times), is not huge. But, in all my drag racing experience, I've never seen a car run 13'* under full power with a trap under 97mph that I recall.
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Old 10-23-2006, 06:06 PM   #38
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My gear ratio is 2.97 as opposed to the 65E(hd) at 2.93.

Shawn, Shadd outlaunched ME on that run! And I STILL beat him to the 1/8 by at least a length or two. The vid makes it hard to determine exactly due to the angle it was shot at.

You're not listening to a word anyone here is telling you, including Matt. My car kills his in the same way.

Every single member that has attended WCBF any of the 3 years will tell you that there is a remarkable difference in how the Series 1 L67 develops and delivers it'* power. You simply are NOT going to understand until you experience and witness it for yourself.

Shad launches perfectly EVERY single time, BTW.

Here'* an example of my car beating a S2, and Billboost (556) will tell you he distinctly heard my second gear break loose. In fact, right after the run in the staging lanes, he said "broke 2nd again, eh?":


Shawn, I'M NOT THE ONE WHO MADE THE 13'* claim about my own car. That was a compilation of S2 owners at WCBF discussing my traction issues. My claims have no bearing on my post count because they're not MY claims.

Discuss things all you want with your buddies. You won't listen to anyone that was at WCBF and has driven all these cars each year (like Matt above, or Greyhare who knows my car perhaps better than anyone here besides myself) so why are you even partaking in this discussion to begin with?

Quote:
also realize its way off topic, but when people make BS claims about their 92mph car that can run 13'*, I'm not gonna let people just sit around a believe it because you are Mr "I have 35000 posts so they'll listen to what I say." It has been pissing me off lately that just because you have a stupid amount of posts, you feel you can just tell people whatever you want and they'll believe it even though a lot of what i've seen from you lately has been a big pile of ***^. I was just discussing that with another member of this forum at MGM that seemed to have the same feelings as me.
I didn't make the claims. Other WCBF'ers (who'* opinions and expertise are well-respected here) did. Your insinuations about my credibility being linked to either my post count or Admin rank on this Forum are out of line and inappropriate.

What you've seen from me is a big pile of ****? Ok, Matt and Mike are also big piles of ****, as are the 3 guys that told ME that I might hit 13'* if I could hook up my car?

No, there'* no **** out West, Shawn. But there'* some a bit to the East of us.
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Old 10-23-2006, 06:25 PM   #39
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Shawn, buddy, don't dig yourself in deeper than what you already are....

In what car in your sig has a S1 */C engine?







Huh?








OH YEAH!



























You don't have one do you....

You really have no clue what you are talking about...
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Old 10-23-2006, 06:33 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driverjohn2005
Shawn, buddy, don't dig yourself in deeper than what you already are....

In what car in your sig has a S1 */C engine?


You don't have one do you....

You really have no clue what you are talking about...
In a nutshell, I think what John is trying to get across is this:

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In his defense, we didn't really understand the difference between the two L67'* on this Forum until after WCBF04. But in spite of that knowledge, he STILL doesn't understand they're two totally different animals.
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