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Bonneville GXP/ Northstar Powered Cars Discuss your Bonneville GXP and/or any other Northstar powered Olds or Cadillac... Including the 3.5L Twin Cam V6 (Short Star ) 4.0L and 4.6L Northstar V8's. Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 05-23-2005, 03:22 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Which is why stock L67'* kill GXP'* on the 1/4 mile. Think about it.
no flaming or permabanned... :P
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Old 05-23-2005, 04:18 PM   #82
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I am still not buying this. Show me time slips for a GXP at a track with a competitant driver and and SSEi. Something isn't right here. For one, yeah, the 4.6 has a max torque at 4,000 RPM but that max torque is 300 Ft-LBS. and it has a max horsepower of 275 @ 5,600 RPM. the 3800 has a max torque of 280 at 3,600 RPM and a max horsepower of 240 @ 5,200. The 3.8 has a gear ratio of 2.93 and the GXP has what, a 3.6 or something? The GXP will be in its power band because of that gear ratio to best utilize that engine'* power. The 3.8 also has an appropriate gear ratio. The GXP weighs 3,840 pounds. the SSEi weighs 3,790.

also, lets consider this. The Aurora 4.0 weighs 3,800 pounds and has a 250 horsepower, 260 ft-lbs of torque engine and runs nearly identical times as the SSEi. So how can you tell me a GXP with a MORE powerful engine would be slower when the Aurora 4.0 is the same as an SSEi? that just doesn't add up. You can't say that a GXP doesn't 'feel' as fast. It isn't going to. It'* much smoother than the 3800 is. They just glide down the road. So, who has false imformation? The magazines that have tested the GXP to be sub 7 seconds to 60, or people who have driven both the GXP and SSEi saying the GXP feels slower.

Will, no offense, but your 93 Bonneville weighs what, 3,400 pounds? your caddy was probably nearly 4,000 or maybe a little bit over. Of course a car that weighs 600 pounds less will feel like it has better initial take off and better low end torque. It takes a lot to get a heavy car moving.

I don't really think Pontiac would be stupid enough to put a 'less' powerful engine and call it an upgrade. They did it for a reason.
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Old 05-23-2005, 04:25 PM   #83
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These track times we're quoting were personally witnessed at the track by INTENSE, and they back up the published numbers for the 1/4 mile ET that I've read for the GXP. The GXP was DE-TUNED, and suffers from more TM in the PCM than the 96-99 SSEi'*.

My car weighs in at 4000 pounds in street trim with all my junk. At the track I run 3600-3700 pounds. Not that far off from the caddy, bud.

Most stock L67'* have dyno'd higher than the 240/280 benchmark commonly published, and the GXP'* dyno'd so far (2 that I know of) have been benchmarked UNDER the listed hp/tq spec.
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Old 05-23-2005, 04:30 PM   #84
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ok. assuming it is slow I wonder why pontiac would have Detuned it so much? so it wouldn't compete with Cadillac? If so, that is just completely pathetic. the GXP could have been a beast with the 4.6. They were trying to create a lion and ended up with a kitten. Sad.
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Old 05-23-2005, 05:48 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren



STREETability? Jason, I don't spend much time over 100mph, and neither does anyone else. For the way most of us here drive, the low-down torque is the way to go. Which is why stock L67'* kill GXP'* on the 1/4 mile. Think about it.
High RPM power, not high MPH power. The northstar should have more upper RPM legs thanks to the DOHC and displacement. I'm not saying throw out low end torque, it will raise on it'* own if you focus more on HP.
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Old 05-23-2005, 07:39 PM   #86
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Default northstar vs sc 3800

Hellooooooooooooo;
Here'* what needs to be done guys:
get a 2002 or 2003 STOCK SC3800 bonny and run it against a STOCK
2004 or 05 gxp and put this BS to rest. How about it Will??????
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Old 05-23-2005, 08:42 PM   #87
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In a sense, it'* already been done.

Quote:
2000_GalaxySSEi 2000 SSEi N/A 15.069 @ 92.659
Purely stock. GXP'* are hitting mid-15'*, typically about 1/2 second slower.

I know there'* alot of resistance, and a bit of frustration on this topic, and that'* totally understandable. You have to realize, that when it comes to Bonnevilles, our collective knowledge and experience on this site cannot be matched. You also have to realize that we base our knowledge on as much experience as possible. In our experience (with track times to back it up), a stock SSEi from 96-2003 is faster than a stock 04/05 GXP on the 1/4 mile.

Until more stock cars run, that'* all we have to go by. There is NO evidence to prove the GXP faster than a stock SSEi. At least not that I've seen.

As you can see here: http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...ic.php?t=24057
We've been trying to get a benchmark for the GXP for some time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleBuck
Hellooooooooooooo;
Here'* what needs to be done guys:
get a 2002 or 2003 STOCK SC3800 bonny and run it against a STOCK
2004 or 05 gxp and put this BS to rest. How about it Will??????
First of all, stock cars have run, and the owners here have their times. What we NEED is for stock GXP'* to run and verify it against the mid to low 15'* we've heard already. How about WHAT Will? (Bill, by the way)?????

It'* not my responsibility to get these cars together to run. I'm basing my posts in this topic from the thousands of cars I'm familiar with here, and the times they've posted, as well as the fact that I've personally driven every generation of Bonneville from 1987 to present.

I'll race any stock GXP for pinks with my 93 when I get the trans fixed though. Any takers?
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Old 05-23-2005, 08:57 PM   #88
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Default Re: northstar vs sc 3800

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleBuck
Hellooooooooooooo;
Here'* what needs to be done guys:
get a 2002 or 2003 STOCK SC3800 bonny and run it against a STOCK
2004 or 05 gxp and put this BS to rest. How about it Will??????
I've been asking for stock GXP track times for awhile. Look up a couple posts in this forum. Other than that, it'* not really up to me to arrange a head-to-head.

But if there'* a stock GXP out there that would like to run against my 93 when I get the trans fixed, I'd be willing
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Old 05-24-2005, 12:26 AM   #89
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if you look at area under the curve (i forget what it means), the SSEi will have ALOT more than the GXP. The SSEi will make most of its power almost right away, while the GXP needs time to wind up.

The "bonneville" that GM has decided to cut did not live up to its name. Hopefully it will come back (or its replacement) and live up to our standards.
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Old 05-24-2005, 12:33 AM   #90
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In this case, the area under the curve would be total energy output, I think. If were a constant function, you could use that curve to calculate your exact 1/4 mile time fairly easy. If it'* not constant, you can iterate, the smaller the RPM interval, the more precise. Total energy output = work = force x distance. Force = mass x acceleration. Throw an intergral in the proper places.
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