Chrysler 300 much more expensive then thought
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From: Bloomington-Normal, IL 1997 SE
Originally Posted by jwikoff99
In this case, the area under the curve would be total energy output, I think. If were a constant function, you could use that curve to calculate your exact 1/4 mile time fairly easy. If it'* not constant, you can iterate, the smaller the RPM interval, the more precise. Total energy output = work = force x distance. Force = mass x acceleration. Throw an intergral in the proper places.
So my guess is that the total energy output of the L67 is higher than the N*, which results in the faster track times.
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Okay the 3.8 sounds and feels like it has better low end power. The N* in my GXP is just a much smoother quieter and more refined engine. The 3.8 is powerful but its just not a refined sounding engine. Step on the gas and you will can hear its age. low end the 3.8 is fine but up around 60 punch it and its a very leisure pull but my GXP puls and pulls at the speen like nothing.
Its like the GXP is the BMW 7 series engine and the 3.8 is the new Neon Srt-4 engine. Yeah srt-4 its faster but alot rougher an unrefined.
Plus the GXP exhaust note beats out any modded and unmodded 3.8
steering wheel vibration on idle etc. is not too great on the 3.8. yeah you guys out there are going to tell me your 3.8 are super smooth but just go out and check out you local pontiac gxp dealer and see the difference.
BTW the gxp are so rare. I live in Ny and my GF is in DE and I have only seen one. Everytime I see a se or a SSEI I look to see if they are looking at my gxp and saying wow i finally saw one.
oh the 2005 bonneville se has the same rear lights at the gxp too incase you wer curious as I swore someone asked before.
In all your 3.8s are great engines as well. Lets just all be happy we have discovered these nice autos and can share thoughts together.
Its like the GXP is the BMW 7 series engine and the 3.8 is the new Neon Srt-4 engine. Yeah srt-4 its faster but alot rougher an unrefined.
Plus the GXP exhaust note beats out any modded and unmodded 3.8
steering wheel vibration on idle etc. is not too great on the 3.8. yeah you guys out there are going to tell me your 3.8 are super smooth but just go out and check out you local pontiac gxp dealer and see the difference.
BTW the gxp are so rare. I live in Ny and my GF is in DE and I have only seen one. Everytime I see a se or a SSEI I look to see if they are looking at my gxp and saying wow i finally saw one.
oh the 2005 bonneville se has the same rear lights at the gxp too incase you wer curious as I swore someone asked before.
In all your 3.8s are great engines as well. Lets just all be happy we have discovered these nice autos and can share thoughts together.
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inurok,
Thats all I was asking for...
I don't hate the Northstar, I do know the technology is just as old as the 3800'*... The N* came out in 92, there have been a few changes or improvements over the years... The 3800 was redesigned for the 1995 model year... So both of these engines are well, old...
I have driven the 4.6 Northstars, and they are very smooth engines...
I have seen some of the later 3800'* 98-99-00-01 and the like actually run a bit smoother than my 95... My 95 used to be really smooth... But age does do wonders...
A friend of mine has the older style 3.0 V6, in reality its just a 3.8 with a shorter deck( if memory serves ).... This thing sure has a shake at idle...
The 4.6 is a V8 and the optimum degree between banks is 90*, this will make it a very smooth engine...
If we were to look at the 3100,3400 and 3500 which are all V6'*, we will find that they are all 60* V6'*... This is optimum for a V6... These engines do not have or require a balance shaft... They are balanced.... Every one I have driven was very smooth, almost couldn't tell it was running unless you looked at the tach...
The 3800'* are 90* which is 30* from optimum... Makes for a shaky idle.... The Balance shaft actually helps that quite a bit... And its funny, my old 3800 idles smoother than my newer one.. LMAO
If memory serves the 3800 line is soon to be dropped from the GM engine lineup...
While I realize( I'm not happy about the 3800 leaving ) its dated technology, I didn't want to see it go... But it seems that GM has decided that it will go... Eventhough pushrod technology is not as good as DOHC smashing engines, I doo like them for the low end power and driveability alond with emissions and fuel effiency that they do deliver...
GM is now using the 3400 and 3500 60* engines, I am hopeful that when they kill off the 3800, Chevy will have a 3800-3900 60* V6 to replace it with... After all the 3500 all bottled up in the Malibu Max is producing 200 Hp and 220 Ft lbs... Buick 3800 II is making 205 Hp and 230 Ft lbs... I have seen sticker ratings as high as 32mpg for the 3500...
All in all the 3800 had a good run...
I like the GXP with the Northstar, But I do wish that GM would have given the people an option to have an SLE opted up to an SSEi Package leaving trhe GXP top of the line...
In any event, I am sad to see the long lived bonnie go the way of the world... So long to the H body...
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Thats all I was asking for...
I don't hate the Northstar, I do know the technology is just as old as the 3800'*... The N* came out in 92, there have been a few changes or improvements over the years... The 3800 was redesigned for the 1995 model year... So both of these engines are well, old...
I have driven the 4.6 Northstars, and they are very smooth engines...
I have seen some of the later 3800'* 98-99-00-01 and the like actually run a bit smoother than my 95... My 95 used to be really smooth... But age does do wonders...
A friend of mine has the older style 3.0 V6, in reality its just a 3.8 with a shorter deck( if memory serves ).... This thing sure has a shake at idle...
The 4.6 is a V8 and the optimum degree between banks is 90*, this will make it a very smooth engine...
If we were to look at the 3100,3400 and 3500 which are all V6'*, we will find that they are all 60* V6'*... This is optimum for a V6... These engines do not have or require a balance shaft... They are balanced.... Every one I have driven was very smooth, almost couldn't tell it was running unless you looked at the tach...
The 3800'* are 90* which is 30* from optimum... Makes for a shaky idle.... The Balance shaft actually helps that quite a bit... And its funny, my old 3800 idles smoother than my newer one.. LMAO
If memory serves the 3800 line is soon to be dropped from the GM engine lineup...
While I realize( I'm not happy about the 3800 leaving ) its dated technology, I didn't want to see it go... But it seems that GM has decided that it will go... Eventhough pushrod technology is not as good as DOHC smashing engines, I doo like them for the low end power and driveability alond with emissions and fuel effiency that they do deliver...
GM is now using the 3400 and 3500 60* engines, I am hopeful that when they kill off the 3800, Chevy will have a 3800-3900 60* V6 to replace it with... After all the 3500 all bottled up in the Malibu Max is producing 200 Hp and 220 Ft lbs... Buick 3800 II is making 205 Hp and 230 Ft lbs... I have seen sticker ratings as high as 32mpg for the 3500...
All in all the 3800 had a good run...
I like the GXP with the Northstar, But I do wish that GM would have given the people an option to have an SLE opted up to an SSEi Package leaving trhe GXP top of the line...
In any event, I am sad to see the long lived bonnie go the way of the world... So long to the H body...
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Originally Posted by inurok
Okay the 3.8 sounds and feels like it has better low end power. The N* in my GXP is just a much smoother quieter and more refined engine. The 3.8 is powerful but its just not a refined sounding engine. Step on the gas and you will can hear its age. low end the 3.8 is fine but up around 60 punch it and its a very leisure pull but my GXP puls and pulls at the speen like nothing.
.............
Plus the GXP exhaust note beats out any modded and unmodded 3.8
steering wheel vibration on idle etc. is not too great on the 3.8. yeah you guys out there are going to tell me your 3.8 are super smooth but just go out and check out you local pontiac gxp dealer and see the difference.
.............
Plus the GXP exhaust note beats out any modded and unmodded 3.8
steering wheel vibration on idle etc. is not too great on the 3.8. yeah you guys out there are going to tell me your 3.8 are super smooth but just go out and check out you local pontiac gxp dealer and see the difference.
And lastly, the steering and suspension on the 2000-2003 SSEi'* is the same as your GXP, so saying yours has less vibration seems a bit odd to me. It'* basically the same car with a different drivetrain.
I HAVE been to the local Pontiac dealer, and have now driven a 2004 and 2005 GXP.
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willwren, you have old 3.8 you keep braging you will race a GXP for your pinkslips. Personally I would not want the pinkslips for a car that 13 years old.
I think that in a few years when the GXP is dirt cheap used you will get one and then brag how fast that is etc.
I would be afarid to race someone in ayour 13 year old bonne. btw all v8s are not smooth. uh my frinds 2001 trans am ram air is now way as smooth as a dohc V8 engine.
yes the N* is not as new as the newest version which as 320hp and VVT but its still wasy ways more advanced than the 3.8. they need to disch that 3.8 and put the 3.5 dohc instead but the 3.8 is dirt cheap to make and work on for GM.
Stop being a braging hater of the N*. all engines have thier good and badpoints.
I think that in a few years when the GXP is dirt cheap used you will get one and then brag how fast that is etc.
I would be afarid to race someone in ayour 13 year old bonne. btw all v8s are not smooth. uh my frinds 2001 trans am ram air is now way as smooth as a dohc V8 engine.
yes the N* is not as new as the newest version which as 320hp and VVT but its still wasy ways more advanced than the 3.8. they need to disch that 3.8 and put the 3.5 dohc instead but the 3.8 is dirt cheap to make and work on for GM.
Stop being a braging hater of the N*. all engines have thier good and badpoints.
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First of all, my car is in factory condition in all respects (except for the trans right now, but that becomes an issue for all of us eventually, and 110k isn't bad).
Secondly, I'm not a Northstar HATER as you believe. If you read my previous posts in this topic, I LOVE the GXP, but feel from a PERFORMANCE perspective, as these cars are usually driven, the Northstar was a step in the wrong direction.
For what it'* worth, GM insiders also feel the same now. The N* was an attempt to 'revive flagging sales'.
So in a nutshell, for the way most of us USE the performance (0-100 mph), the L67 is a better way to go IN MY OPINION, backed up by our track times, and also has a much more robust aftermarket.
I've owned a N* before, and I didn't hate the engine or the car. I just don't feel it was the right way to go in a performance sedan. The Series 3 L67 would have been better performing for the typical enthusiast.
Secondly, I'm not a Northstar HATER as you believe. If you read my previous posts in this topic, I LOVE the GXP, but feel from a PERFORMANCE perspective, as these cars are usually driven, the Northstar was a step in the wrong direction.
For what it'* worth, GM insiders also feel the same now. The N* was an attempt to 'revive flagging sales'.
So in a nutshell, for the way most of us USE the performance (0-100 mph), the L67 is a better way to go IN MY OPINION, backed up by our track times, and also has a much more robust aftermarket.
I've owned a N* before, and I didn't hate the engine or the car. I just don't feel it was the right way to go in a performance sedan. The Series 3 L67 would have been better performing for the typical enthusiast.
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jr's3800
You are right
reason pontiac didnt keep ssei and GXP is because the performance and cost would be so close it would be hard to make one top. 3800 supercharged was no slouch so it would be hard to sell the GXP V8 powerwise as an advantage.
hater does not know what he is talking about. The GXP has aluminum in its suspension just for the gxp and it is smother than the 3.8 verson. When he can aford one his opinion will change.
You are right
reason pontiac didnt keep ssei and GXP is because the performance and cost would be so close it would be hard to make one top. 3800 supercharged was no slouch so it would be hard to sell the GXP V8 powerwise as an advantage.
hater does not know what he is talking about. The GXP has aluminum in its suspension just for the gxp and it is smother than the 3.8 verson. When he can aford one his opinion will change.
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willwren
its not about all out perfomance. I know the N* is not the best choice for a perfomance car. Its was chosen because all of the competition in its class and the luxury class have 32 valve engines and a ohv would not give them the refinement edge to compete. The N* was just too late. They should have offered it it from 2000 up.
My GXP burns 1 quart of oil so its not perfect either.
its not about all out perfomance. I know the N* is not the best choice for a perfomance car. Its was chosen because all of the competition in its class and the luxury class have 32 valve engines and a ohv would not give them the refinement edge to compete. The N* was just too late. They should have offered it it from 2000 up.
My GXP burns 1 quart of oil so its not perfect either.