X2

Take a northtar out on the highway NOT in city driving and it'll absolutely kill the 3800. The 3800 runs out of breath at a bit over 4,000 RPM. the northstar doesn't even WAKE UP until over 4,000 RPM. You can't compare how fast they are always off the line. Compare them on the top end too where the northstar will stomp all over the 3800. All I've been hearing here is how the 3800 is superior to the GXP around town. Yeah, but the higher 'highway' speeds are just mysteriously left out. hmm. yeah, the 3800 is awesome around town and at lower RPM'* but the northstar will stomp the 3800 on the highway anyday. I"ve owned both. 2000 SSEi and have test driven the 01 aurora 4.0, and a 99 Cadillac Eldorado with the 4.6 V8. The SSEi is a slouch on the highway compared to the N* engines.

The GXP wasn't made to be a street racer IMO it was made to be a highway cruiser, so IMO pontiac was right to go with the DOHC engine. Only the 3800 die hards aren't willing to use the newer trendier technology. To the common consumer the DOHC engine looks better than the dinosaur 3800. Yes, I still love the 3800 but some things just need to be let go sooner than later so better things can replace it.

EDIT, you do also realize that the northstar engines do not reach full performance potential until they're well over 20,000 miles right?

if it was a step in the right direction then why is nobody buying them? they look great, even the interior is MUCH better than any bonneville i know of. but after hearing a full face to face report about the gxp from willwren, i cannot be convinced that it is a better overall car than the 92+ ssei'*. if there was any demand for the gxp around here (even the massive pontiac dealer near me got but two gxp'* since release) i would go test drive one and find out for myself. by the way, its not that i hate the car or anything, just cant figure out why they replaced something that worked just find the way it was

Yep, you're right, the GXP did not sell, or any other Bonnevilles for that matter as of late, including the SSEi'*. They made the same ammount of GXP'* as SSEi'* as the same years. If you remember correctly the SSEi also did not sell that great compared to the SLE/SE. They never have. Thus the reason for limited production. The interior on the 2000+ Bonneville horrible compared to other cars in the same class. I was looking at the Bonneville when I was shopping for a car but the interior was a total turn off for me. The exterior is awesome and is hard to beat but the interior feels way too cheap for such an expensive car. I don't like driving our SSEi just because the interior just irks me. ha.

also, the GXP isn't selling because of it'* 26 MPG rating for gas mileage. With gas prices going up people aren't willing to pay that. Pontiac waited too long to do this. If they had introduced it years ago it might have sold. I can bet you if pontiac actually sold the GXP and SSEi AT THE SAME TIME that the GXP would OUT sell the SSEi.

You would rather have a willowy structure, a yestertech v6, awful build quality, and so-so performance in place of a DOHC v8, slick style,performance-tuned suspension,and at least some attempt a decent build quality? Now that'* some The reason they don't sell is because a loaded GXP costs $38,000. For a lot of people, that'* a nicely optioned 3-series Bimmer, a loaded Audi A4, or an Acura TL with $2,000 of pocket change. And there is no comparison between the GXP'* interior and that of ANY of those cars above.

Actually, Overhead Cams were used well before Overhead valves/in block cams in engine design. The build quality is the same (so-so) the looks were changed, that re-tooling added extra money, and the interior what was changed? They made the gauges white, they added a stick on piece of metal to the shifter, and changed the look of some parts.

another 5-6k in the price?

Yes the Northstar is better up top, but it'* redline should be higher to take advantage of this.

carbon fiber jason, can't forget the carbon fiber...



might i add a gxp would get owned on a road course as well, not just the drag strip...



this thread boils down to the fact that: 300C Hemi > Bonneville GXP

My opinion (based on cars I've personally driven and cars I've seen proof of here) is that the Stock GXP is a lower performer in handling and 1/4 mile accelleration when compared to a mildly modded Series 1 L67 or a stock Series 2 L67, any body style.

Bonnevilles I've driven:

04 GXP
05 GXP
TWO 2000 SSEi'*
'98 SSEi
'97 SE
TWO '93 SSEi'*
'93 SSE
'92 SSEi

The mildly modded 92 SSEi would evenly match a stock GXP. The times posted on our own site back this up. My car is nearly a full second quicker than a stock GXP in the 1/4, and this is based on actual recorded times.

Calling a 3800 a slouch when compared to a GXP or Northstar is kinda ridiculous in the face of the facts presented here. Every stock (in good running condition) 96-2003 SSEi on this site is faster than any stock 2004 or 2005 GXP.

Want more low-end? Mod, mod, mod. I suggest starting with a single or twin turbos and supporting mods.

Cool it off in here a little, and base your conclusions on fact. Do it in a manner that suggests HELP towards the GXP crowd, and let'* get those cars faster.

Those of you that have seen my posts here before know that I live in Berlin, Germany. I work at the U.*. Embassy. I routinely drive on the autobahn here. Contrary to popular belief, there are MANY more stretches of the autobahn where there IS a speed limit (usually 130 kph or about 81 mph) than isn't anymore. Mainly due to Eastern Europeans coming in more often, more traffic, etc. With that said there are still long stretches of road with no speed limits. The 300C'* are popping up all over the place here. I was driving 110 mph and got smoked by a 300C that had to be going at least 150. As I saw him coming I mashed the throttle to drop into a lower gear and it revved to nearly 6800 RPM before shifting to 4th but I could not catch that Hemi. Now, I am quite sure that the Hemi'* that are built for the European market definitely have highway gears, however, that thing was screaming! When we got into a traffic jam later down the road, I was right behind him. As the construction site ended and it was open road again, he pulled over to the right to let me pass and we both mashed the throttle! He wasn't pulling away from me but I wasn't catching him either. Now remember, the GXP'* have 3.71 gears so I thought I would definitely get him from a 30 mph rolling start but I didn't. As the speed increased he left me hanging.....BAD. That extra HP and displacement did me in. I got up to 142 mph and he was still pulling away. What I am getting at here is that the Hemi has some serious all around power even for that big car it'* hauling. I'm still not convinced about the looks, but that motor puts out big time!

You definitely have him on looks, options, and comfort. But this further proves the point that the N* needs some help.