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Old 06-05-2014, 03:16 PM   #11
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I wonder if you have any ground bus corrosion going on, I know we have a guide on 92-99'*, but I am not sure that would help you or not, I think the ground bus is in the same location, but I am not totally sure.
Hopefully somebody else here knows where it is located.

Next time it won't start check for spark on each cylinder, it would be best to use an inline spark tester, but some just remove the wire from the plug, and lay it near the block, and watch for spark to jump to the block, I personally think a spark tester is safer, but to each their own.

If it has spark you need to check for fuel delivery.
The next time it refuses to start I'd remove the breather tube from the throttle body, open the throttle body and spray some starter fluid in there while somebody tries to crank it, if it will not start it is a fuel delivery problem.

However with the conditions you are describing definitely get the battery terminals checked for corrosion, and clean them if necessary.
Also it would be good to check the health of your battery, if you have a multimeter you can do so easily, with it not running set the multimeter to the DC Volt setting, and put the negative probe on the negative post, and the positive on the positive, and see if you have 12.4 to 12.6 volts, if not the battery needs to be charged.

Having problems with lights not coming on, door chimes, and the other power issues you described make me think it is either a bad ground bus connection, a dying battery, or possibly a faulty PCM, and although I doubt it is the issue, it is possible you may have damaged the alternator by spraying the motor off without covering it up, Advance Auto should be able to test it for you if you can get it there, if the alternator is damaged the battery will go dead, and cause issues like you have described.
But the fact it is actually starting, and then dying sounds more like a fuel delivery issue.
When they tested for codes at Advance Auto why couldn't they read any of the old stored codes?
Or did your cousin use a scanner to clear them?

The sensor you are describing is the MAP Sensor, not the MAF Sensor, the MAP Sensor sits on top of where the PCV valve is.
Does the sensor in question look like one of the attached images I am attaching to this post?
If so you can get it for 30.00 to 50.00, they are much cheaper than a MAF Sensor.

Have not been awake too long and need to finish my coffee, I'll come back and see if there is anything I missed after I wake up a bit better.
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Old 06-05-2014, 05:29 PM   #12
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After I changed the PCV Valve two days ago, I had to pull the MAP sensor off to get to the PCV and the top cover of the MAP Sensor came off when I went to pull it out of the hole it was in and I was able to put the top back on and clip it back in and the guy at Advanced Auto said that it might work or it may set off the Engine Light after a day or so of driving. When I get it started and I have to keep the gas peddle down to keep[ it going or it dyes and when its running there is white smoke coming out the exhaust and it smells like gas..
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Old 06-05-2014, 05:37 PM   #13
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Sorry, I meant the MAP sensor. I think its gona need changed and then clean the terminals. It always seems like when something goes wrong is when I have to work and with all my medical problems I have that I have doctor appointments daily as long as therapy and all that. I couldn't do it without you all with all your help.
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Old 06-05-2014, 05:45 PM   #14
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I had advanced auto clear my codes last month when I had to change the hard vacuum line that went from the fuel regulator to a rubber boot like thing.
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Old 06-05-2014, 05:46 PM   #15
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Auto Zone said the MAP SENSOR COST $160.00
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:22 PM   #16
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The MAP Sensor may still be fine, you could test the sense wire and see it it is working right, here is a link that should help with that.
https://www.gmforum.com/trouble-shoo...sensor-280296/

With the white smoke, I'd say that would be coolant burning, but that tends to smell sweet, not like gas, something may be causing it to run a bit rich, or it may be from oil bring burnt.
The intake manifolds usually collect a lot of oil in them from PCV blowback, so that may be what you are experiencing, that or the MAF readings may be off, and causing it to run rich.
Have you removed the MAF and cleaned the metal thermistors on it with MAF cleaner?
If not whether or not it is the problem, it could not hurt to do so.

I know you said it smells like gas, but I still must ask, does the car seem to have a lot of coolant disappearing?
You don't have to add a lot of coolant to the overflow tank frequently do you?

Just realized I forgot to answer the question about the LIM, yeah it is the intake gasket, the lower to be specific.
The upper intake manifold gaskets can fail from EGR port gasses, and the coolant ports can warp, and leak, they actually make a reduced diameter EGR stove pipe that goes into the LIM that helps prevent this problem, it is something I always recommend having done, along with the lower intake manifold gasket being changed, the old lower intake manifold gaskets are plastic lined, and almost always fail after a natter of time, I took good care of my car, and around 133k they were failing, and if they failed that could have lead to the end of my motor.
I'll attach a pic of oil from blowback pooling up in the upper intake, and pics of oil all over my lower intake manifold gasket, it was on its way out.
Also let me find a pic of the coolant that was pooling up inside my lower intake manifold.
I could not find pics of my LIM before I got most of the coolant out of it, but you can still see what looks like a coolant and oil mix in the top left corner, it had pooled up there, and in the bottom right corners.
I'll try not to go on about this too much now since it does not really sound like it is related to your current issue, but I wanted to share a little info on it because if you plan on keeping the car for a while, the LIM Gaskets need to be changed, and that reduced diameter EGR stove pipe needs to be installed.
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob46360 View Post
Auto Zone said the MAP SENSOR COST $160.00
The MAF maybe, but if they are selling the MAP sensor for that much they are trying to rip you off, which one of those in the pics I posted does it look like, one is a T Series, the other two should be the same, and are not.
RockAuto has them for 30.00 to 55.00, the 30.00 Standard one would work fine if on a budget, but I always try to go with OE AC Delco'* when I can.
If you identify which one it looks like I can give you a part number, but I'd not replace it before testing it, and or seeing if it causes any codes.
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Old 06-05-2014, 08:27 PM   #18
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William, myne looks like the picture on the right end. I just stopped in Advanced Auto and there is a guy that seems to be good help and not just to try selling things in the past. So I just went there and he was there and he looked up the MAP and they had like 4 or 5 different ones that all ranged around $140.00. He asked if I had the car and I told him it starts but it wont stay running unless you keep playing with the gas peddle but the gas smell is very bad when doing that plus the white smoke coming from the back exhaust. He said before selling me anything that it could be possible that I didn't get the MAP sensor seated good, and to check both of the orings which I remember taking the old one off the old PCV and putting it on the new one and also there was a orange colored Oring that I believe was at the bottom of the MAP sensor, and that its pulling in to much air to make it dye. So he said to pull off the neg battery terminal and pull the ECM Fuse for 3 minutes, and while waiting to turn the MAP sensor back off and to reseat it and after putting the ECM fuse back in that it puts the car into some kind of mode where it will allow me to drive it 5 minutes back to him so he can put the code meter on it and take a look at it. So im heading outside to do this and I will also use this QD Electronic Cleaner on the plug connector before plugging it back in and see if I can take it there.
That does seem like a big price difference for that sensor. I went to both Advanced Auto and Auto Zone and they both were around $140.00 for that. I wonder if he put the wrong motor in when doing the search. I have the 3800 non super charged. I will write down those two brands when I go back. This is what it says on top of the MAP sensor- 09359409
Sensor, Pressure
Made in USA
1135
5V Out GND
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:09 PM   #19
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I don't think the guys you are talking to at Advance Auto know the difference between a MAP or MAF sensor, I just looked up the AC Delco MAP for your car, and it is the exact same one my car uses, and it was listed for $54.19, the AC Delco is going to be the more expensive sensor that they sell, so there is no way at all that MAP sensor is around 140.00
A dealer like Nalley Buick only sells the same sensor for 65.00, I found it on Amazon for $42.67 and free shipping.
ACDelco 213-796 Map Sensor ACDelco 213-796 Map Sensor

I still do not think your MAP sensor is causing your problems, there is no way it is going to cause your lights inside the car to intermittently work.
You may even have separate issues going on here.
Also, MAP sensors do not function like MAF sensors, they get readings of the barometric pressure in the intake, when you give the car gas all it does is read the drop in barometric pressure, and when you let off the gas it is measuring the increase in the barometric pressure.
Our naturally aspirated motors utilize a 1 bar MAP, if the MAP is working right you can easily test it with a multimeter.
I'll attach a pic that shows the voltage the sensor wire sees in relation to the load on the motor, it also shows the barometric pressure.

Disconnecting the battery like that is not going to help, there is a reason that guy works behind a counter, and not in a garage, you are going to cause the PCM to need to learn a lot of variables from different sensors, and for things like fuel trims, etc.
If the MAP is faulty it is not going to fix it enough to let you drive by disconnecting the battery.
I really suggest using a multimeter, and testing the voltage of the MAP sensing wire, it should change in voltage as the load you put on it changes, which you can do yourself by pulling on the lever your throttle cables are attached to, or have somebody in the vehicle slowly give it gas, and slowly let off of it, while doing so watch the voltage change from 0-5v, well withing that voltage rage, I am not sure if it will show a much voltage at idle.

I still suggest getting some CRC MAF cleaner, remove your MAF, clean the thermistors off, let it dry, then put it back.

Also, go back over my previous posts, and if you have a multimeter test the battery, and get those battery cables cleaned if they are corroded at all, also try to find your ground buss bar, and see if it is corroded at all, I'll post the link for doing this on older model cars, the buss bar may, or may not be in the same location.
https://www.gmforum.com/electrical-1...1999-a-303224/

I'd try to avoid throwing parts at this until you test them and verify they are actually bad.
Also, it is usually not good to post your info like cell number in the posts, so I am removing it for you, a PM would have been a lot better, but even then most of us would rather help you here, and not in cell phone texts, as not all of us have unlimited texting, or giving our number out, which we would be doing if we texted you.
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Old 06-06-2014, 12:17 AM   #20
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Sorry bout the phone number. I went back to Advanced Auto and took the MAP and the new PVC I just bought a couple days ago to make sure they were looking at the correct piece. First, my car never started after him telling me to take the ECM fuse out and disconnect the Neg battery terminal. When I got to the auto store that one guy was already off work so I showed another guy what I needed and it came up as $52.99, so the other guy must of been looking at that other sensors price I guess. While takeing the MAP sensor out of the PVC valve access cover the one side that snaps onto the MAP sensor broke so while at the auto store I tried to get a new one and they had to order it. So I'm gona try at the salvage yard tomorrow to get a new one. But I did hook up the new MAP sensor and sense the base it goes into pushes down and turns I don't think having the side piece that broke would of mattered just to see if the car would of stayed running. I noticed that when the small oring was on the PCV and when I put it down into the hole where it went it seemed like it should of gone down a little further the say the molding is formed in a double layer. So I took the oring off and put it in the hole that sat on top of the molding that looked to be layered for it to set in and then I put the PCV in and pushed down so the oring would be right where it was when I pulled out the old PCV valve. Then when I put the valave access cover on with the spring on the bottom it seemed to push down easier and turn that little bit to lock that piece down. I then put the new MAP sensor in place and plugged it in. I checked the connector that plugs into it and it looked like new, but I had some QD Electronic Cleaner from CRS that I sprayed a little on the end of the plug and let it dry for 10 minutes. After getting that all back together I took off both battery terminals and used a brush to clean all the white build up it had on it and put some terminal greese stuff I picked up at the counter at the parts store and tightened them both up. I went to start it and the lights were a lot brighter then normal but after turning the key to start I still had to paddle with the gas pedal to keep it running and I still smelled gas just with having my door opened while starting it. I turned it off after It kept dying and smelled up by the engine and didn't smell any gas. So now Im gona have to go over your last answers and find someone with a tester unless I can buy one at walmart still tonight and test the plug for the MAP.. Sence I took out that ECM fuse, would that maybe cause the car to still do what its doing until everything resets itself? Just a thought.
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