94 s1 s/c 3800 performance - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 10-13-2007, 05:29 PM   #1
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Default 94 s1 */c 3800 performance

Hey guys, I got the 3800 out of the bonneville yesterday and it'* sitting on an engine stand now. What I need to know is how much hp/tq i'm looking at getting after investing $$ into performance improvements. Here'* what I'm looking at getting

2.2" pulley (2.5" stock)
5-angle valve job on the heads
performance valve springs
custom grind cam (can I call a cam shop and tell them what i'm doing to the engine and have them make suggestions for me?)

rebuilt bottom end
ported lower intake
30# injectors
headers

I will also be looking into putting a 100-shot of nitrous to it in the future, which may or may not happen. I am mainly concerned about going to a lower pulley size on the m62, and dropping way off after 3000+ rpms due to the m62 being inefficient pushing that amount of boost at higher rpms.

I'll also definitely be installing a wbo2 bung for tuning purposes and will be having it tuned.

These engines are 225/275 hp/tq in 94/95 engines, what will I be looking at after the mods, a transmission eating monster?

Any insight would be helpful

P.*. This will be going into a 5-speed 88 fiero gt. Let'* also take an un-biased look at nitrous, and not start a war if at all possible .
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Old 10-13-2007, 06:26 PM   #2
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first off, your stock pulley on the 94 is a 2.8", not 2.5" so going to a 2.2" is a HUGE jump.

If you have the money to spend on it, you should be able to find the parts you want for it.
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Old 10-13-2007, 06:38 PM   #3
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30# injectors? What'* wrong with the 29# injectors that you won't be able to outflow with those mods?
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Old 10-13-2007, 08:26 PM   #4
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Will, I'm not trying to be harsh but you're already starting out in a defensive tone (imo). I threw out the 30# injectors off the top of my head, I still need to do some research before ordering the parts but I have a good idea of what i'm going to be doing. I was quoting the 2.5" off of the s1performance site which I will know not to do again .

I've come here so that you guys can tell me what I need to read into and see what you guys think about this build. I'm VERY appreciative that you guys take time out of your day to help me too!
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Old 10-13-2007, 10:46 PM   #5
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I wasn't being harsh, nor critical. I was wondering why you'd selected 30# injectors, in the same manner that someone posted right before me, that you didn't jump on.

Please get a bit more specific. Don't nail yourself down to sizes and components. The best thing to do is tell us:

1. What your goal in performance is.
2. What your budget is.
3. How long you can spend on it, and what resources you have at your disposal.

It'* much easier to do it that way than to try to pick apart your wishlist and straighten things out.
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Old 10-13-2007, 10:55 PM   #6
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1. mid 12-sec 1/4 mile
2. the budget is an ongoing budget. I can contribute a good $400/month to this project
3. the car is uninsured, I just purchased a new car. I have an un-heated shop, tons of tools, a cherry picker, an engine stand, a welder, and torch. I would like to get an air-compressor in the shop some day but don't have the $$. Really on this list the only thing I need to buy parts for would be cam removal, pulling the pulley, and servicing the bottom end. Basically I can take however long I want on this build, but I'm hoping to have it done within two years.

I also was wondering what you guys thought the hp/tq would be from what you've seen. I'm hoping to get 300 hp and 350+ tq, but that is being pretty optimistic.

basically I want to build the s1 to its max potential with the m62 on it, and I have the funding available to do that.

I'm planning on a $3000-$6000 total budget, I know how budgets tend to inflate


edit: oh and I will be using this for my build thread too, I'll be taking some pics tonight!
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Old 10-13-2007, 11:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesCurtis
1. mid 12-sec 1/4 mile
2. the budget is an ongoing budget. I can contribute a good $400/month to this project
3. the car is uninsured, I just purchased a new car. I have an un-heated shop, tons of tools, a cherry picker, an engine stand, a welder, and torch. I would like to get an air-compressor in the shop some day but don't have the $$. Really on this list the only thing I need to buy parts for would be cam removal, pulling the pulley, and servicing the bottom end.

I also was wondering what you guys thought the hp/tq would be from what you've seen. I'm hoping to get 300 hp and 350+ tq, but that is being pretty optimistic.

basically I want to build the s1 to its max potential with the m62 on it, and I have the funding available to do that.

I'm planning on a $3000-$6000 total budget, I know how budgets tend to inflate


edit: oh and I will be using this for my build thread too, I'll be taking some pics tonight!
1. Getting into the mid 12'* in a Series 1 isn't practical in any stretch of the imagination. The S1 falls on it'* face at the higher rpm'*. Even with a cam on the Zilla, I'm not even thinking of that as a possibility, because I know the limitations of the heavy rotating masses of the S1 engine.

2. Budget is good. You'll need it to achieve Mid 13'* at best over the winter. You might JUST make it for that money.

3. You need an air compressor and Quality air tools to achieve your goals if you intend to do the work yourself.

I have already exceeded your hp and tq goals. But I don't rev or shift to the same rpms as the S2, so I am at a 500 to 700 rpm disadvantage in peaks and shift points. Yet another reason why the identical peak numbers in the S1 won't achieve what the S2 can do. You will beat them off the line and possibly to the 1/8 mile marker, then they'll run you down and beat you to the 1/4.

More than half your budget will have to be spent on the trans.
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Old 10-13-2007, 11:38 PM   #8
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Hey will, remember we're talkinga bout a fiero here. it usually takes 250-300 rwhp to get into the 12'*. For comparison, subtract ~1000lbs, move most of the weight right over the top of the tires, and vuala! Fiero

I'm going to invest in a spec stage3 and see how long my 5 speed getrag lasts. When it busts I'll get a different one and have it rebuilt. I don't see any reason why all this work can't be done with hands, ratchets, torque wrenches, and standard wrenches. Sure I might be able to do this quicker with air tools, but I can't see why they're necessary.

This car will be a weekend fun car by the way, I will be expecting things to go wrong, but it won't hurt me because it isn't my main car.

Also, if I talk to compcams do I just need to tell them what I want from the engine and they'll figure stuff up, or do I need to give them all the specifics?
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Old 10-14-2007, 12:43 AM   #9
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What gear ratio? I produce more horsepower than a chunk of the top 25 list above me. But the Series 1 (with the same gear ratio) develops it'* peak horsepower at a lower RPM. This means the S2 winds out more. The only prayer you have is a gear ratio change.

You'll make all your time on the 1/8. From there, you're praying to hold it long enough to the line.

If you want 12'*, go S2. It'll cost you less.
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Old 10-14-2007, 02:32 AM   #10
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Hey will, do you happen to have any dyno charts based off of the zilla?
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