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Old 08-18-2007, 11:47 PM   #41
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For the record, I'm not saying I believe the entire theory, but I AM saying that we have been lead to believe untruths. WTC 7 was an obvious controlled demolition at the very least, I would put money on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPjO...elated&search=

That doesn't mean I believe everything.

If you can explain why this is "obvious" BS, the debate would benefit.

Worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKzCwXXgVJM&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTL9mmXFrI8
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Old 08-19-2007, 06:44 PM   #42
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You have ONE, FOREIGN, news service making an inaccurate, and very bare-bones report with no confirming information, that a building they are obviously not familiar with has fallen over, in the middle of a disaster area where two other, far more massive building have already toppled. It had been stated many times already by other news reports that the building was badly damaged. It would be very easy to make the assumption that a rumor that the building had collapsed was true. You don't think that somewhere in the muddle of rumors that were flying around that day, that one service out of the 50 or 60 that were reporting day, got something wrong? Never, ever, assume conspiracy where confusion and bad fact-checking can account for the results. The fact that it came down on its own later does nothing to confirm or deny anybody'* theory, on either side.
And just because it seems improbable that the building came down on it'* own, don't assume a truly IMPOSSIBLE conspiracy was responsible. As I've stated, and as any demolitions expert WILL tell you if asked, it would have taken months to ready any of those buildings for demolition, and the preparations would have been very loud, very involved, and would have made the building uninhabitable for months before they brought it down. If you think that it could be hidden in any way, then you have no idea what goes into demolishing a building, period, and therefore aren't qualified to render an opinion in the first place. This puts you in the same realm as the black-helicopter and anal-molesting-alien kooks.
And like my Brother said, those beams were cut during the salvage/clean-up after the towers fell. It had to be cut so they could MOVE the stuff. Where do you think the steal that otherwise would have covered those beams in the picture went? After all, they stated that these were in the BASEMENT, where they would have been covered by over a HUNDRED FEET of broken twisted, mangled steel and concrete from the floors above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakevilleSSEi
Still didn't answer on how you would just "waltz" right in the trade center basement with torches. What would you tell security? "Ya I'm here to torch the building supports" ?
And just how are you supposed to "waltz" into the WTC with several tons of high explosives, miles of wiring and explosive detonation cord, fuse blocks, wiring blocks, flagging tape, jackhammers, concrete saws, scaffolding, plywood, ladders, powertools, hand-tools, dumpsters, hardhats, high-power fans, ventilation equipment, wheel-barrows, tarps, ....
Do you have ANY idea what it takes to bring down a building in a controlled implosion? I mean, ANY IDEA at all? Have you ever SEEN a building taken down?

Let'* say you need to cut one single beam of the type that composes the structure of the WTC. we're talking about a high-grade steel beam several inches thick, covered in high strength concrete. You can't just slap explosive to the side of it. It would take a huge bundle to even reliably break the concrete. Even a shaped charge wouldn't work. The concrete would shatter, yes, but it would absorb almost all of the force of the explosion. So you have to cut the concrete away. and still, it'* going to take a large shaped charge to cut it. So you use a cutting torch to notch the beams in a very specific manner(the picture of the diagonally cut beams being very much not the way it'* cut for demo) usually a chevron-shaped cut across the center of the beam, with the structure being still held up by the sides. You do this twice, one above the other. Then you run detonation cord, an explosive wrapped wire, back to a fuse block, which is in turn wired to a remote detonating device outside of the danger area. Only then are the explosives placed. The shaped charges, strips of plastic eplosive with a "V" cross-section, are secured to the beam with two-sided tape, using one or more charges to cut the metal, and another, different type of charge to "kick" the cut-out section of beam out of the cut, allowing the beam to fall. Now, repeat the cutting process about a hundred times, and you've only completed ONE FLOOR of the WTC. You've still got 109 more floors to go, plus basement levels. Have fun.
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Old 08-19-2007, 07:04 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonnie94ssei
WTC 7 was an obvious controlled demolition at the very least, I would put money on it.
What was that you were saying?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonnie94ssei
If you can explain why this is "obvious" BS, the debate would benefit.

Let'* turn this around. You PROVE to me that that building was brought down by controlled demolition. And I don't want to see that video again. You show me documentation. You show me photographic eveidence. You show me a picture of explosives on those beams. You show me HOW they managed to pull it off. Research the various areas of expertise involved, then break it down into logistical problems, show how they overcame each one.
I want to see some evidence of critical thinking.
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Old 08-19-2007, 07:33 PM   #44
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and yet we're supposed to blindly believe that tower 7 fell due to localized fires and falling debris.

C'mon Brian.

I'm reading a lot of words without being convinced of anything. And I wouldnt call the BBC an inaccurate news organization. If anything, they're the most credible ones out there.
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Old 08-19-2007, 07:38 PM   #45
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Quote:
Have you ever SEEN a building taken down?
Actually, yes, I have. And its all done with safety in mind. IF Tower 7 was intentionally brought down, by whomever or however, safety of people wasn't a factor. 3000 people had already died when two airplanes brought down 1 and 2. I'm not going to debate the collapse of Towers 1 and 2. Had the same plane hit another building built in the manner they are now, they'd still be standing still to this day and we'd all be much happier.
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Old 08-19-2007, 08:51 PM   #46
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Regardless of the fact that I haven't seen anything to convince me of a conspiracy, I'll add some credence to Jim'* credentials. Jim is an Architect.

So here you can see two somewhat differing viewpoints from two people educated in structures and physics who also disagree.

As you continue to post in this topic, please keep in mind you have ZERO CHANCE of convincing someone else in this topic to switch viewpoints. State your case and move on.
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Old 08-19-2007, 09:01 PM   #47
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Lets just say the final results of the redevelopment will be fantastic.



Lets celebrate progress in the wake of disaster and move on.
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Old 08-19-2007, 09:07 PM   #48
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http://www.legacy.com/Sept11/Story.a...ersonID=129458

Freaky, huh? Not a very common surname by any stretch of the imagination.
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Old 08-19-2007, 09:58 PM   #49
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While not convinced of a conspiracy, I certainly believe its possible and I certainly wouldn't put it past our elected officials .
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Old 08-19-2007, 10:19 PM   #50
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Brian, since you seem to be a demolition expert, please answer this one question. You'd agree that WTC 7 fell in the exact manner as a controlled demolition would, right?

Yes?

I thought so! WTC 7 fell in the exact way a controlled demolition does. And that has been my point. Perfectly straight down, in a manner of seconds, even though any damage the building had was limited to one side. Any uncontrolled collapse of a building due to some minor structural damage does not fall straight down into its basement, WITHOUT ANY RESISTANCE from the structure underneath.

Do I have PROOF that it was intentionally demolished frankly, I don't need more proof than the video of Silverstein saying he gave orders to "pull it" (which means demolish - its on youtube). Do I have pictures of explosives in the buildings? Give me a break, of course I don't. But you don't have proof that there weren't any explosives either.

I've watched about 10 hours of videos in the past two days on all areas of expertise surrounding this issue. Which is why I can say that you wouldn't have to rig 110 floors of the WTC with explosives. You'd only have to do every other floor. But I haven't said with any strong conviction that I think Towers 1 and 2 fell due to demolition. But I do agree that they certainly APPEARED to. WTC 7 has been stated by countless demolition experts that it did too.

It definitely would have taken a some time to get the building(*) ready for demolition, of course. I wasn't saying it was done in a few days though you could easily do it in a few weeks. The attack on the WTC was planned for a long time, by whomever was involved. It surely is POSSIBLE the government had some hand in it. Most would not want to believe that, but it is POSSIBLE. Brian, I don't know how you can say it is IMPOSSIBLE.

For those that are open-minded enough to believe it'* POSSIBLE, search for "The Project for a New American Century" on youtube. You'll find some chilling videos.
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