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Old 08-17-2007, 10:17 AM   #11
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Merely trying to ensure you sway back on topic and I don't take the heat for it going off.
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Old 08-17-2007, 10:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjcollier07
Thank you bill. It doesn't take a genierous to figure that out...
But it does a take a genius to figure out what that meant

I've watched a lot of WTC footage, and I'm sort of a WTC obsessed kinda guy, hell I've even worked on the redevelopment project. Its pretty simple to understand how it fell down due to the side impact.

WTC 1 and 2 were built with the majority of the structure on the perimeter. This new design feature by Leslie Robertson (LERA..who coincidently is the structural eng on 2 of the 4 new buildings) allowed for wide open office floor areas. The central core also provided a center structure. Both steel columns within columns (core and perimeter) were tied together laterally with very thin but effective OWSJ (open web steel joists) sprayed with cementitious spray fireproofing. Note that in order to achieve 2hr min firerating for the floor slabs, the OWSJ'* needed at least 1.75" of spray coverage. At the time of impact, the perimeter structure was comprimised. The resulting explosion and fire blew off the spray fireproofing on the OWSJ exposing thin steel to the flames. The sprinkler system was insufficient for the job.

Now, at the perimter, steel angle clips were welded to the permeter steel and OWSJ mounting tabs. As the OWSJ'd deformed the welded tabs began to weaken. This was the end for WTC towers, once those clips failed, the entire structural system was finished. The floor slabs failed at the perimeter, the connection of the floor to the core was overloaded and failed, and subsequently you had a vertical dominoe effect. It took 11 or so seconds for gravity to take over and down she comes.

New York City has always been a steel city, I've worked on a few NYC buildings and concrete is not something they are comfortable with. Hell, they can't even pour a raised curb on a floor (I'm not kidding). However ALL new buildings in NYC now feature concrete central cores with a steel column/beam frame and composite floor slabs (steel deck with 4-6" of concrete and concrete topping. The days of OWSJ in high rise buildings are over. If new WTC ever comes under attack as it did, the building will not fall in the same manner (if at all) because the fire protection system on the steel has much more surface to adhere to, and steel tabs don't hold the building together.

As for the Pentagon, I have no answer or sympathy, it was a military target and its a risk you take.

Flight 93, it was a valiant effort by the passengers to overtake some really pissed off muslims and they died.
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Old 08-17-2007, 07:36 PM   #13
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I never really remembered much about Flight 93 (I did see the movie) the day it allegedly went down. But after seeing this video it really has me thinking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZekosYOmXc

And there'* a 92-95 SSE/SSEi in this video @ 5:25 sec. Video of course makes you think. I do remember that day when I was in campus I watched the news and remembered hearing about a van parked in the building that may have had a bomb in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT...elated&search=
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Old 08-17-2007, 09:54 PM   #14
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The loose change conspiracy is BS IMHO.
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Old 08-17-2007, 11:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonneVille
Use Occam'* Razor. It states that the simplest explanation is most often true.
amen to this.

i realise there are some people who are sure that the government is out to get them, but it just doesnt make any sense.

since when has the government needed a reason to go to war? we didnt have one in WW1, we barely had one in WW2 [we had an excuse, not a reason], and that doesnt even take into account the 200-some odd times weve moved SIGNIFICANT amounts troops into hostile territory under just about every president weve ever had without a word from Congress or the american public saying we could.

i just dont believe any of this trash.
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Old 08-17-2007, 11:42 PM   #16
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A lot of this makes sense to me, only thing that really doesn't make sense, is the theory of the Norwoods Conspiracy or whatever. THe thing about shuffling planes around, saying that the planes that hit the tower we're empty or what not.

Then how did all those ppl die that were on the plane?

The Pentegon makes perfect sense.....Missle or Lear Jet style aircraft. Only thing small enough.
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Old 08-17-2007, 11:44 PM   #17
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Question: Why were the beams cut straight across like that? Answer: Because that is the easiest way. Straight line is the shortest distance between two points. There were major structural elements and huge pieces of structure lying around, that had to be cut using oxy-acetylene torches. Look at the cuts again, they show the ragged pitting characteristic of gas cutting. Shaped charge explosives leave a different cut, it'* much sharper and cleaner, plus there is a lip left on the side the explosive cut FROM caused by super-hot metal flowing away from the strike face of the explosion before it cuts through the beam. These cuts look much like the cut you get in heavy plastic with a razor blade.
There were shaped charges used LATER during the cleanup, to bring down the "stub" of the North Tower, something like 75-100 feet of the outer skin that remained standing when the floors collapsed through it.

What would they want to hide in the Pentagon video? The section struck was recently refurbished, and one of the reasons for the refubishment was to install new security and damage control features. For obvious reasons, showing the people that caused that damage pictures of the results would give them insight into how to cause MORE damage. Remember, before he was a terrorist, Osama was a STRUCTURAL ENGINEER.
Why no video from the government? It'* simple, they don't want to admit that due to contractor and scheduling errors, the wiring for the NEW external cameras hadn't been installed, but the wiring for the OLD ones had been removed. Seriously, there had been a blurb in the Washington Post (I believe, can't recall the exact paper) on the 8th or 9th about exactly that problem, one of those "Yeah, this is worth our tax dollars" kind of stories.

What evidence of "any large plane hitting hitting that bulding" do you need? The large hole is pretty conclusive, I'd say. Cruise missles don't make holes in the exterior, they penetrate and detonate inside. Look at all the pics from the "Shock and Awe" strikes, and compare them. The reason that the jet caused so much damage is that it physically PUSHED the wall into the building ahead of itself.

A jet engine turning at or near full throttle at impact does not remain intact. It SHREDS itself, you might find fan hubs, but the blades and casing are confetti. Again, do a web search of OTHER airplane crashes, and you'll see what I mean. And BTW, there are pictures of the port engine core (The turbine {rear hot section of the motor} hubs and some of the accessory drives) being removed from the rubble.

Have you ever seen what happens to a body that sustains a 500 mile per hour impact? It LIQUIFIES. Flesh, clothes, bones, all of it splashes and shreds. And they did find plenty of body parts, they just have the decency not put the pictures of the dead on the web for all the damn ghouls out there to drool over.
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:02 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar MAN
Question: Why were the beams cut straight across like that? Answer: Because that is the easiest way. Straight line is the shortest distance between two points. There were major structural elements and huge pieces of structure lying around, that had to be cut using oxy-acetylene torches.

How exactly would you get into that building with a big enough torch set and enough supplies to do that?

Pentegon, no phycally possible way to fly a 757 or whatever it was into the E Ring in the manner of the impact.

Watch the survailence video, that looks nothing like a 757 to me, also, I think at 500 MPH, it would have gone right through that side of the building like nothing, and made a shitload bigger of a hole in the side.
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:21 AM   #19
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You know what, I'm done with this subject. Believe whatever the **** you want.

If you're comfortable ignoring obvious evidence, setting aside common sense, and believing the absolute worst TWADDLE I've ever heard, then go right ahead.
But I'll tell you this, my Aunt is an attached civilian clerk. Her work took her to the Pentagon on a regular basis. She had friends and co-workers in that building. Granting ANY credibility to these lying sacks of **** dishonors the memory of the people that died that day.
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakevilleSSEi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar MAN
Question: Why were the beams cut straight across like that? Answer: Because that is the easiest way. Straight line is the shortest distance between two points. There were major structural elements and huge pieces of structure lying around, that had to be cut using oxy-acetylene torches.

How exactly would you get into that building with a big enough torch set and enough supplies to do that?
The same way they get them into ships at salvage yards. How the hell do you think they scrapped out old warships with thick armor plated hulls and decks?

BTW, are you a pilot? Do you have your license? I think a few people here do. Why don't you ask them if a 757 could hit the biggest office building in the world?
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