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Old 01-20-2005, 12:18 AM   #21
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Sounds like plenty of good things going on at Generic Motors

Drop the Bonneville

04 Grand Prix is not a success generally, except for the rental companies.

04 GTO didn't nearly live up to expectations. An awesome drivetrain but bland exterior jusr wasn't a recipe for success.

Pontiacs marketing always iritated me somewhat. Look at the Sunfires, you could get a GTO or GTX Sunfire...but these were the badges of more upscale, and more expensive, cars...yet they cheapen the brand by offering it on their lowest model on the line.

Look at what Chrysler has done, not that I'm a big fan, but some of their new products are exciting, and certainly they've come out with many innovative designs over the past years. Can't say Generic Motors has been very innovative, they just copy and are late to the game.

I'm no Ford fan either but I think the new Mustang is outstanding.

I don't know, GM doesn't seem very inspired under Bob Lutz.

Cheers,
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Old 01-20-2005, 12:26 AM   #22
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What does Lutz ryhme with ?........P_ _ _ !
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Old 01-20-2005, 02:04 AM   #23
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....PUTZ! Yea, I dunno. It seems as though cars are reverting back to the 60s in a more modern way. IE: Mustang, Thunderbird, 300, ect.. Even the muscle car era has returned. I think GM should resurect the Firebird and Trans Am and give them back their 60s styling with a modern touch. Look at the new Mustang. Hmmm. now you've got me looking at the modle cars on the wall. How sweet would it be if GM made a Vette with the split back window again and retractable headlights. They could resurect Oldsmobile with the return of the Cutlass 442 and the Rocket 88 with the 500hp Z06 engine.
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Old 01-20-2005, 02:19 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonneMeMN
Quote:
Originally Posted by smellbird
GM needs to really overhaul the interiors or else make them basic so that it reflects the materials being used. 40K+ for a new GXP is ridiculous. Someone looking to spend that kind of money for a sedan will be looking at BMW, Cadillac or Merc.Benz, not a Pontiac.
I point you to the new Impala. :P But if they made a RWD for '07, and maybe a 400 or 421 motor?

Another question, why would anyone buy a Bonnie GXP over a GP GXP?
I would take the bonne GXP if I needed the larger cabin space for passengers and the such...Assuming the Bonne is larger than the GP. Now Being in my current stage of lifge....20 yrs old and a severe need for speed......I'd go with a GP Comp G...>Stay force fed and fast......But IMO the Bonne and GP do look some what similar....At lest from the rear.
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Old 01-20-2005, 03:14 AM   #25
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Lutz is just making GM cars like every other car. I don't like this. The new Impala/MC is just PLAIN. What happened to round lights on the Impala? Looks like damn near every other sedan out there. The interior'* are great, and the solstice is something else. He just needs to keep GM, as GM, and still make it modern. Making it toyota, honda, Audi, etc isn't the way they need to go.
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Old 01-20-2005, 06:31 PM   #26
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I'm not in marketing, so I can't claim to understand the thinking here. What strikes me is that GM has been successful with overlap for decades. The problem seems more like their being stuck in a rut with model redesigns and building cars that no one wants. That XUV thing was a still-born at best. Its no surprise it flopped. But look at the ratio of advertising between imports and domestics. They at GM advertise the crap out of the crappy cars. I can't remember the last time I saw a commercial for Bonneville. Heck its been a long time since I've seen one for GP. But I bet when they were running the ads with Samuel Jackson doing the voice over for GP, it was probably pretty productive.

Compare that to how many commercials I see for nissan or toyota. I see them all over the place. Say "Toyota Quality" enough times and people believe it is remarkably better. Why doesn't GM learn? Sales are up from the previous year, but they want to unload a good car (one of their best) in favor of a new line they have no sales history with?
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Old 01-20-2005, 06:40 PM   #27
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"In 1995 there were nearly 100,000 Bonneville'* sold. Last year there was less then 30,000. I honestly believe the newest model lost it'* touch. The 88-91 was great for it'* time. The SSE was ahead of it'* time. In 92 they got a new interior and body, more power with the same response, and even more toys.

In 92 the new car was damn good. Everything isn't made overly complicated. Headlights can be removed easily, the engine can be worked on easily, everything is within easy reach. The wipers hide, the sprayers are under the hood as well. The HUD was introduced to the platform, etc. Still had all the great 88-91 underpinnings, but they made it even better where they could.

Some things went away in 96 with the redesign, and when the body was changed to the G/H hybrid it lost character to share it'* platform with other sedans, H*** it lost it'* light under the hood. How many $30k+ cars don't even have a headlight under the hood? Sure in 00 they got all sorts of stuff like the new magnasteer, rear discs, but look at the sales and you'll see what the story is with the public. "

All I can say to this is that I had a 93 and now drive a 2000. The 2000 is superior in my eyes in every way but headroom and elbowroom. The 93 was a bit wider and didn't have the sunroof. I think the difference was that the earlier years were a truly striking redesign. The later evolutions were only refinements, and by 99, they had saturated the market. The 2000 probably would have sold more if they advertised the hell out of it, and if people didn't stop and realize that they could have almost every same feature in the GP for a lot less cash.
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