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Old 07-08-2014, 03:29 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by WNCRick View Post
Sorry for the confusion guys. Yes dead. No starter engaging, no click of solenoid, no turnover, no nothing. The radio and ac turned off while attempting to turn the key into the start position, and returned to normal once in the run position. So at least that is happening.


Thank you all for the interest

1. Battery terminals were cleaned and tightened recently due to needing a battery.

2. The chassis ground I did not check, I will check, clean, and ensure a good contact. I assume you mean the mating point from the main neg cable to the frame?

3. Yes there is a chip in the key.

4. The security light has a mind of it'* own and has been that way for a couple years, may be related may not......It seems simply intermittent.

I'll check the starter/solenoid connections after tomorrow (my last day of work since this happened)

Many thanks

Rick
When you say the security light has a mind of its own what exactly do you mean?
Does it come on for a minute or so when you turn the key, then cut off?
Or is it staying on all of the time?

Waiting to see how checking the ground, and starter connections go, and your response to the security light, but it is starting to sound like VATS may be the issue, if it is I can help you figure out if it is the ignition terminals, as long as you have a multimeter.
If it is the ignition terminals there is a way to bypass VATS/PasskeyII, it does require the ability to splice into a wire or two..
I'll stop with saying that though, I don't want to add too much info that we are not sure is relevant yet.
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:11 AM   #12
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if the radio is going off when you turn the key its a power issue. take a meter and check the battery while someone turns the key. if the voltage goes way down the battery is bad or not getting charged. if it doesnt there is a bad connection. you need to take both ends of the big cables off clean them and the surface they connect to bare metal and reassemble
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:17 AM   #13
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I would trace the starter trigger wire from the ignition switch down. This could likely be a theft deterrent system issue, especially when you indicate a known concern with it. The other spot is the neutral safety switch, but that usually does not clear up on its own like this. It sounds like a security issue to me in all honesty.

Also the accessories dropping out when the key is in the start position is normal.
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:45 PM   #14
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I wanted to give it enough time to give some accurate info before I made a response. Here is the latest. I began to pay some attention to the security light. Still completely random for instance:

It was on all the way to work
It was off from work to the gas station on the way back home
It was on again from the gas station to the mailbox
Then came on after checking the mail
Then went off halfway down my 1/10th of a mile drive.........

I watched it for over a week, best way to describe it is random..........no joke......


I have had no other probs till yesterday morning. It did it again. Same symptoms. I watched the security light, it was on during the attempt to crank and nothing. I then turned the switch to off and removed the key. After trying the above a few times........

The security light flashed while I got out of the vehicle after turning it to the off position, removing the key, and locked it up. I then used the key to open a door and held it in the unlock position until all the doors unlocked, the security light went out immediately when the doors unlocked, and the car started up fine..........


hope that helps

Rick
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:44 AM   #15
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Sounds like the ignition cylinder wiring may have a short, and is failing.
Do you have a multimeter?
If so can you set it to ohms. and test the resistance of your keys pellet? It should be one of the following 15 resistance values.

1———— 0.402
2———— 0.523
3———— 0.681
4————-0.887
5————-1.130
6————-1.470
7————-1.870
8————-2.370
9————-3.010
10————3.740
11————4.750
12————6.040
13————7.500
14————9.530
15————11.801

Once you know the resistance of the pellet, the next time it fails to start you can test to see what the ohms are at the power block that should be above/to the left a bit of the brake pedal, pretty sure that is right where the block is, the next time I go outside I'll try to get you a pic of where mine is, that way you can see the two wires I want you to test the ohms on, there are 2 wires going into the block of wiring, they are white tiny wires that come out of a orange sheathing.
To better see what I am talking about check out this site, it shows how to bypass VATS if they ignition cylinder is bad.
Now I am not suggesting you do this if yours is bad, replacing the cylinder would be the best way to go, but it will be pricey, if you need to retain the security of VATS then you will not want to bypass it.

How to bypass the VATS system in a late model GM vehicle
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:13 AM   #16
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Do you have a different key you can use?

It'* acting like it is getting the wrong value, or it is getting a flaky reading. You may also want to clean the contacts in the ignition cylinder too as they can get dirty over time. Also as the key wears down and the contacts wear, the connection may not be the best.

Keep in mind, on a wrong value, the system WILL NOT attempt to start again for 3 minutes.
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:20 AM   #17
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Another thing, the typical failure is a broken wire on the ignition cylinder. This causes the TDM to have NO reading, which results in a blinking security light with the key on, but nothing with the key off. It should immediately start once it reads the correct resistance however.

The other possibility is the TDM itself. Those have been known to fail as well on occasion.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:04 PM   #18
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If he tests the resistance like I suggested he'll know if it is the ignition cylinder.
I think you have to remove the cover around the fuse panel area to see the wiring block I mentioned, I'll have to go out and look at my PA to be sure, I am cooking now so it will take me a few to go check.
I'll have to do some digging to tell him how to test the TDM, I remember something about a wire seeing 5V with the ignition in the On position, and that voltage reducing by about half when you try to start the car, that is what I remember reading about a while back, if the voltage on the purple wire I believe it is coming from the TDM shows that, then the TDM should be working right, of course I could be totally off here, trying to remember what I read a while back, I'll have to do some digging to find that info, as I do not think I saved it.

If the TDM or PCM is having problems, and it is not related to the ignition cylinder, then the most cost effective way to go is to get a bypass, or have VATS tuned out of the PCM, the bypass is the cheapest way, and only requires a bit of knowledge/ability to splice into wiring.
Baker Electronix - GM VATS Bypass

If it is the ignition cylinder, and they do not care if they lose the security system, then they could do the resistor trick seen in that vatslikeabigdog thread, I wanted to be able to buy regular keys, and not pay like 27.00 a key, so I did the resistor trick and my car starts fine every time without a resistor pellet in the key.

It would be best to be able to have somebody with a Tech II scan the system when the security light is staying on, that would better tell you where the problem lies.
Wish I could help more, but I am not an expert at the VATS system, just messed around with doing the resistor trick to avoid buying expensive keys, if I want to hook VATS back up all I need to do is buy some more keys with the correct resistor in them, and reconnect my ignition wires to the wiring block.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:10 PM   #19
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The best thing to do, is disconnect the neg bat cable....

Remove the driver'* side hush panel....

The "block" we are talking about, is under the dash on the top left side....take a 7 mm nut driver and back out the screw until loose, and then separate the block....on the outside edge is a separate harness that has the two white wires, with the orange sheathe around it.....those are the two wires that go to your ignition cylinder...

Take an ohm reading of your resistor pellet on your key......attach your ohm meter to the two white wire contacts....should read OL or infinite.....now install key into cylinder....your reading on the ohm meter should match your reading of the key.....now, rotate the key to the crank position and back to off.......do this several times....that reading should be constant...if at any time, the reading goes OL, chances are you have a break in the wiring at the cylinder ...it breaks over time, since it flexes every time you turn the key.....

As stated, you can replace the lock cylinder which is costly......or, you get a resistor from a place like Radio Shack that matches the resistance of your key....then you cut the pair of white wires approx 3-4" from the block and attach the resistor to the wires......
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