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Old 02-20-2012, 03:30 PM   #31
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My car stalling was strange. It appeared to be related to a low fuel tank. Yet, there was time when it would not happen even with a low tank. I had suspicions that it was a loose pick-up problem. However, when it first happened, it was cutting off a lot and I thought it was a bad connection at the battery connectors (one that could have been the case with the first stalling) My battery was a larger one than stock and it was not tied down. So I thought that when I would go to turn a corner from one street to another the battery would tip and pull on the battery cable. It appeared that cleaning the battery cables solved the problem and it would run for a while until the battery cable became corroded again (a leaking battery caused corrosion that keeps returning). perhaps that was the cause of my first stalling. I could go a year without stalls.

Then one day I drove the car home and it would not start five minutes later. It seemed to be heat related. The car would only start after sitting. I was told this was the crank sensor breaking down when hot. However, replacing the crank sensor did not fix the problem. I could drive the car about six miles and it would cut off and have to be towed home. I was told the ICM module was breaking down with heat and needed to be replaced. Nope. Finally, I took the MAF out, even though no codes, and checked it under a high mag lens and I could see the wires that make up the wire elements (they are tiny) and the heated one was burned away. Replaced the MAF and the stalling went away. Of course this strange Code 18 with rough idle just appeared one morning.

So, check all the battery cables for clean connections. Take the positive cable apart (pull out the lead insert so you can see the copper/brass connector behind it. Make sure all connections are clean. Go to the relay panel in the engine compartment where the positive cable connects to and take it off and clean it and make sure it is a tight connection. The output from the alternator goes to the battery and if they connection there is loose or corroded, it could cause a problem. If you loose power to the ICM or sensors for even a microsecond, it probably would cut off.

Then of course I would check the MAF because I have found that a bad MAF can cause a stall. In my case, it was a stall and wait until it all cooled down.
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Old 02-20-2012, 03:35 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjolly87 View Post
... the third code does have me intrigued, and curious as to what would cause that.
I am wondering if that was just set because of the stall, it got set just before everything went off, and would have cleared once the engine restarts and runs for the time require for the computer to settle.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:18 PM   #33
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Well... it does not appear to be the MAF. I just returned from the autoparts store on my lunch break. I replaced the MAF and reset the codes in the parking lot. I did not get 1 mile down the road and it stalled. It is about 15 - 20 miles back to work and it stalled about 5 times, the last time it stalled it backfired 3 times. Each time it stalled I tried reading the codes, but none were stored. Just code 12 over and over again. So the other codes must have been left over from me "fixing" with it. This time not all of the stalls were at highway speed as usual, but kind of the same, when slowing down/coasting/light throttle on a 35MPH road. Each time it would not restart right away, but would start after about 5 minutes. I guess that was money wasted, expensive sensor also.

Anybody now a good cliff in central Colorado? I think it is heat related. This morning it was 4 degrees and I ran it over the pass and not one issue or hiccup. This afternoon it was 15 degrees. It ran fine all 20 miles or so to the parts store. Then leaving the parts store it was hot and the issues began. I am at a loss. I hate to take to car to a mechanic. This was just supposed to be commuter car so I would not have to drive my diesel truck all the time. Hell, I could have bought a bunch of fuel with the resources I have poured in the thing. Not to mention the wife'* "I am so glad you bought that car" comments. I had good intentions.

Sorry for the rant. I am not sure where to go from here. Crank sensor? As always, thanks for everyone'* input.

Doug
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:03 PM   #34
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Have you replaced the crank sensor? My sister has a 2006 Buick LeSabre (I think that year is correct). Her car would stall out with her at times but start right back up. I was using it one day since my car is still not running and I started it up at a Lowe'* car park, pulled out in traffic without problem. Had to wait behind another car making a left turn. Took off and only went a short distance before it stalled. Pulled over into a side street and it started right back up and did not give me a bit of trouble the rest of the day. It did that several times with her. Then one day she was driving it and it stalled out and would not start at all. It was the crankshaft position sensors. They don't always do like the textbook symptoms and my sister'* car is a prime example. Usually one has to wait on a crank sensor for it to start up again.

I feel your frustrations because I replaced the coolant sensor, the cam sensor, the crank sensor, the MAF sensor, and the ICM on my car. That is a lot of money for me to continue driving this old Buick but I can not afford to get another car at this time.

If you do need to put in a crank sensor, you can go to Lowe'* Home Improvement for the metric machine bolts needed to use with the harmonic balancer. They come in two packs so you have to buy two packs to get the three bolts you need.

I have an ICM you could try to see if it is the ignition module but I am poor and can not afford the shipping costs; I would want it return as well. I was thinking of sticking it back in my car to see if it would clear the Code 18. At the moment I am waiting on a new PCM/ECM unit to see if it is a faulty computer causing my woes.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:11 PM   #35
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Quote:
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... Not to mention the wife'* "I am so glad you bought that car" comments. I had good intentions.
These Buicks are good cars. I had mine for some fifteen years before it gave me any problems. My engine has over 323,000+ miles on it. When I went in to inspect the timing chain to see if it was possible it had jumped a tooth or two the gears looked fine. The chain had a bit of wear to it but it was not loose and the damper was in very good shape, just a slight groove worn in it. I did not need to replace the timing chain at all but of course once in I was not going to reinstall worn parts. The 3800 was the best engine that Buick made; it was foolish of them to end production of the 3800. My Mum'* Buick is an '83 LeSabre. It finally chewed up the phenolic timing gear (I was unaware they had used them). Other than that, my Mum'* car never gave any problems. Well, outside of the blow carb gasket that cause a vacuum leak.

Don't get too discourage.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:14 PM   #36
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Remove the MAF sensor, make sure it is clean. put it back in the box and take it back. Tell them you got the wrong part and ask for a refund. If they ask you if you want to get another one, tell them you need to find out the proper one first. It may work. Especially if you purchased at an Advance Auto or Auto Zone. Tell them you did not install it because it was not the correct part.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:17 PM   #37
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The MAF on my '93 is made different from the one on my sister'* car, so maybe use the wrong year as an excuse. If nothing else, maybe you can get shop credit to use later.
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:15 AM   #38
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Have you tested your IAT?

If not get a DVOM, set it to ohms, and follow the info I found from gmtuners.

On most OBD1 applications, two trouble codes are associated with the IAT sensor. A code 23 indicates the intake air temp reading is lower than expected. If this code is present, before replacing the sensor you should check for an open circuit to the IAT sensor wiring. A code 25 indicates the intake air temp reading is higher than expected. If this code is present, check IAT signal wire for a short to ground before replacing the sensor. If either code is set, or there is a problem with the IAT sensor, it is unlikely you may notice any running change in the engine. However, in some cases (depending on computer programming) if the ECM is not getting the correct reading from the IAT sensor, it may be altering the spark advance or fuel delivery to the engine incorrectly which may cause some drivability issues such as spark knock (detonation), loss of power, or exhaust odor because of incorrect fuel mixture.



The IAT sensor can be tested using a simple ohm meter. In order to test this sensor, unplug it from the wiring harness and measure the resistance across its two terminals. The temperature vs. resistance chart is found via the link below…



If your IAT is giving a code 23, then its sensing the air is too cold, so your IAT sensor, or IAT sensor wiring could be bad.
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:15 AM   #39
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:17 AM   #40
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Also, I meant to post the part that I found interesting here, it sounds like a bad IAT could cause loss of power and similar issues.



On most OBD1 applications, two trouble codes are associated with the IAT sensor. A code 23 indicates the intake air temp reading is lower than expected. If this code is present, before replacing the sensor you should check for an open circuit to the IAT sensor wiring. A code 25 indicates the intake air temp reading is higher than expected. If this code is present, check IAT signal wire for a short to ground before replacing the sensor. If either code is set, or there is a problem with the IAT sensor, it is unlikely you may notice any running change in the engine. However, in some cases (depending on computer programming) if the ECM is not getting the correct reading from the IAT sensor, it may be altering the spark advance or fuel delivery to the engine incorrectly which may cause some drivability issues such as spark knock (detonation), loss of power, or exhaust odor because of incorrect fuel mixture.
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