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Old 05-18-2004, 03:26 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jachin
Something has gone seriously wrong with this alarm instalation. After i hooked up the wires for my headlights, my door pin trigger switch and my tach speed sensor, my car keeps cutting power to itself and it wont start at all.
Um, what do you mean by "cutting power to itself"? Does it run but then shut off? Does it refuse to even crank the starter? Are you blowing fuses?

Quote:
I never plugged any of the harnesses into the control unit. I am thinking that when i hooked it up to my icm, the wire running from the icm to the dash that i used was enough to ground it out and fry the icm and possibly the ecm.
Sorry, can you tell us what "icm" is referring to? Anyhow, if you never plugged anything into the control unit, it doesn't sound like your new wiring is connecting anything to anything else (yet). I also assume that the new connections you made are tapping into existing wires, not _cutting_ into them. That is, you're leaving the original wires uncut; you're just soldering another wire to the original, so that you can either draw from the existing current in the circuit (e.g. when tapping into the tach signal input) or inject your own power into the car circuit to activate it via your control box (e.g. to pop the trunk or blink the lights).

Quote:
It was 18 gauge and i thought it would be ok as long as i didnt plug it in.
Well, if you haven't plugged the other end into anything, it doesn't matter _what_ gauge it is, since no current will be flowing through it.

Quote:
I'm taking the alarm off today and checking every fuse, if the fuses are all good and the car still doesnt start, im taking it to a diagnostic center. Does anyone have anything else this could be?
I would backtrack from wherever you are now in the process, one step at a time, until you get back to the last point where things had tested successfully. Since most of this installation consists of tapping a new wire onto an existing wire, it'* hard to see how you could have seriously upset anything along the way. If you can be a little more specific with what your symptoms are now, maybe we can pin it down.

For example, can your remote starter start the engine? Can _you_ start the engine using your key? If it won't start, do you get the three-minute Security light on the dash? What is still working, and what is _supposed_ to be working but isn't? Take it systematically. Probably the touchiest part of the installation is going to be the VATS system: if the VATS bypass box (controlled by your remote starter) doesn't provide the right resistance to the car'* VATS controller via the white wires behind the dash (the ones enclosed in the orange sleeve), the car will refuse to crank over, and give you the solidly-lit (not blinking) Security light as a result.
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Old 05-18-2004, 03:49 PM   #82
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Ok i disconnected the whole alarm and all of the fuses in the car are good. What i meant by its cutting power is that the car will suddenly lose power and just die, the gauges shut and its hard to stear or push and the brakes are stiff. It seemed to do this at random and i couldnt narrow down a specific cause. I would have to disconnect the battery to get power back to everything and it would do it again. After uninstalling all of the alarm it has quit doing this, however it still wont start. Right now my battery is dead because i tried cranking it over so many times while this problem occured. ICM stands for Ignition Control Module, its the thing that your coil pack sits on and i taped into the wire that i was instructed to in a previous page of this post. I am going to try to get a hold of a battery charger and go from there. IT might be a bad coincedence that the problem started while i was installing this alarm or it might be related, right now i just dont know. I never cut any wires, i only spliced into them. I never completely installed the alarm or tested it. I can turn the key but right now like i said my battery is dead, and since things have changed i want to try again to see what kind of symptoms it will have, or if it will start right up or what.
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Old 05-18-2004, 06:55 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jachin
Ok i disconnected the whole alarm and all of the fuses in the car are good. What i meant by its cutting power is that the car will suddenly lose power and just die, the gauges shut and its hard to stear or push and the brakes are stiff.
Okay, well, your engine is stalling for some reason, and of course you then lose all your power assist at that moment. (You should still have enough vacuum reserve for at least two hard applications of the brakes before the pedal goes really solid, but you're right that your power steering will go away immediately.)

Say, is a fuel-pump cutout part of the alarm package? If so, maybe that thing is triggering for some reason while you're driving. Aside from the fuel pump, is there any other alarm-related connection you made that'* supposed to disable the car?

Quote:
It seemed to do this at random and i couldnt narrow down a specific cause.
I think I'd want to check the ignition switch first, and also your main battery cables at both ends of each cable. However:

Quote:
I would have to disconnect the battery to get power back to everything and it would do it again.
This part has me puzzled, as well as:

Quote:
After uninstalling all of the alarm it has quit doing this, however it still wont start.
Okay, when you "uninstall" your alarm, what are you disconnecting? It would be interesting to disconnect _just_ the two red power leads, which drive your alarm box, and see if the car is back to normal after that. If it is, perhaps you've got one or more wires from the alarm cut into the wrong circuits, and when the alarm box turns on those wires, Bad Things start to happen.

If the car is still screwed up even after you've disconnected the red power leads, then unfortunately you may have shorted together some wires that aren't supposed to be connected.

Beyond hooking up your alarm wires to the car'* wiring harness, is there any disassembly that you did that might have something to do with the problems you're having now? i.e. Did you ever actually _remove_ components like the ignition switch, coil pack, battery cables (aside from the battery itself) or ECM?

In the absence of any more details I'm kind of stumped here. Any BonnevilleClub members near you that can help?
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Old 05-19-2004, 11:30 AM   #84
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First off i want to make sure that you know that during the installation, i never pluged any of the harnesses into the control box for the alarm, and i never finished the installation, or tested it. as soon as i noticed this problem, i disconnected everything. WHen it would cut power, i would disconnect the negative battery terminal waited 2 or 3 minutes and then i pluged it back in and everything would work again for a minute and then it would do it again. I forgot to add that it would cut power when i put my key in the ignition and clicked it forward, but once again after i disconnected everything, it stoped doing it. What i meant by uninstalling the alarm is that i unspliced all the wires and taped over them. Aside from the alarm itself, i never disconnected anything. I never took off the coils, the ecm or anything like that. IM sorry if im not giving enough details, but i dont entirely understand whats going on either
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Old 05-19-2004, 12:14 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jachin
First off i want to make sure that you know that during the installation, i never pluged any of the harnesses into the control box for the alarm, and i never finished the installation, or tested it.
Okay, fine...

Quote:
When it would cut power, I would disconnect the negative battery terminal, waited 2 or 3 minutes and then I pluged it back in and everything would work again for a minute and then it would do it again. I forgot to add that it would cut power when i put my key in the ignition and clicked it forward, but once again after i disconnected everything, it stoped doing it.
So when you say "it stopped doing it," you mean that after you disconnected everything, you had a working car once again; is that right?

I'm thinking here that you've got a fundamental problem with one of those wires you're tapping into at the ignition switch, but probably not anything further down the line like power locks, trunk release, exterior lamps or whatever.

Let'* go back to first principles. You've only got a few large wires to connect there. To review: you've got:

-- two red power leads to tap into that will provide the power to your control box as well as the power supply for things like popping the trunk and flashing the lights

-- a pink wire to tap into to provide power to the ignition (Engine Run)

-- an orange wire to tap into to provide power to the high-drain accessories like the heater/A/C blower

-- a light-yellow wire to tap into to provide power to the starter (Starter Crank)

You also need to install a VATS bypass so that the VATS module sees the correct resistance in those little white wires that go to the ignition key, so it thinks the correct key is in the ignition and will allow the car to start.

That'* all you should need in order to start the car remotely. Once you've got that part _working_, you can then move on to add in the alarm and aftermarket security features that are supposed to _block_ things from working, if your alarm system thinks that someone is trying to steal the car. Are you with me so far?

You're going to need to retrace your steps, unfortunately. I wouldn't recommend bailing out and having some diagnostic place try to figure this out, since (1) my understanding is that when you remove your connections, the car works anyway, and (2) even though you're getting pretty bummed out about this, you're still a lot more familiar with the wiring of your car than an average repair place will be, unless you're taking it to an electrical specialist at a GM dealer.

A third alternative you haven't mentioned is to take it to an alarm installation place and let them take over. I suspect that if they're willing to install your system rather than one of their own (some places won't, so don't be surprised if they refuse), they should have it figured out pretty soon.
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Old 05-19-2004, 10:54 PM   #86
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yes you are correct in that when i disconnected, whatever was making it cut power quit doing it, unfortunately, the battery was also dead. I charged the batery tonight and tried starting it. it would turn over for a little bit but not start, so i left it alone and went in. Later i went back out and tried again and now all i get is a grinding sound for a split second, then nothing when i try to start it. the grindin sound is really sudden, it only lasts for a second at the most then it quits and nothing happens at all no turning over, nothing. When i get out of the car, the securtiy light will stay on for 30 seconds then quit. I never taped into vats, i never connected anything on that harness or the 3 wire harness for the door locks. Aside from those 2 everything else aside from the brake light wire was connected. Could this be the starter or the alt? i know the battery is good, i used a tester on it even. What should i start doing to test everything? Also when i started it for the first time about a week back after i connected those few wires that started it all, i smelt something burnt and then it started cutting power. I should also add that i did stuff the wires up under the dash before i started it then.
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Old 05-20-2004, 10:30 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jachin
yes you are correct in that when i disconnected, whatever was making it cut power quit doing it, unfortunately, the battery was also dead. I charged the batery tonight and tried starting it. it would turn over for a little bit but not start, so i left it alone and went in. Later i went back out and tried again and now all i get is a grinding sound for a split second, then nothing when i try to start it. the grindin sound is really sudden, it only lasts for a second at the most then it quits and nothing happens at all no turning over, nothing.
Well, you've either got a seriously dead battery that won't take a charge, or a major short in the car that'* killing any battery attached to it. Can you hook up the battery to a charger overnight (i.e. give it a good 12 hours to soak up a charge) and try it in any other car? I guess you could also try a known-good battery in your car, although I'm a little concerned that any short in the system is going to fry it.

In hindsight I think you've mainly got a dead battery here... Make sure it, or whatever other battery you can get your hands on, is fully charged before putting it back in the car.

Quote:
When i get out of the car, the securtiy light will stay on for 30 seconds then quit.
That'* normal behavior when you lock the car. It shows that your Security system is armed; this function is not related to the VATS wiring through your ignition switch at all, even though VATS and the security system both use the same "Security" light on the dash.

Quote:
I never taped into vats, i never connected anything on that harness or the 3 wire harness for the door locks. Aside from those 2 everything else aside from the brake light wire was connected.
Okay, you're not going to be able to start the car remotely until you install a VATS bypass box anyway. You've got one to install, right?

Quote:
Could this be the starter or the alt? i know the battery is good, i used a tester on it even.
Testing its voltage isn't really going to tell you anything about load capacity, and from your description it sounds like the battery poops out as soon as you try to crank the starter. I would leave it on the charger overnight, then take it in someplace like AutoZone or NAPA for a proper load test.

Quote:
What should i start doing to test everything?
You need to get back to a safely running car before continuing with this installation. Get the battery checked out as being good, reinstall it (or its replacement) and get the engine running again. I wouldn't worry about the alternator at this point; even if you're just running on the battery, having the engine running at _all_ will be progress here (plus I doubt that a bad alternator would cause any of this grief anyhow; your battery almost certainly went dead from lack of use and occasional short-circuiting).

Quote:
Also when i started it for the first time about a week back after i connected those few wires that started it all, i smelt something burnt and then it started cutting power.
If everything was stable (i.e. no burning smell or whatever) _until_ you started the car, then one or more of your ignition-switched wires appear to be shorted to ground. i.e. Unitl you turn on the ignition, you don't have a short, right?

If you can, get under the dash with a test probe and verify that, with the car off, you have power in the red wires but _not_ in the pink, orange or (God forbid) light-yellow wires. Then turn on the ignition (without cranking the starter or starting the engine) and verify that you do have voltage in the pink and orange wires. If either of those are shorted to ground, you should measure no voltage in the shorted wire (and it'll probably be getting hot, too). I don't think any other wires should be affected at this point.

Quote:
I should also add that i did stuff the wires up under the dash before i started it then.
I assume you did tape each and every connection you made, so that none could be touching any other, or touching sheet metal and grounding themselves.
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Old 06-14-2004, 12:56 AM   #88
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Sorry i havent been keeping you all updated, this alarm thing has turned into a real PITA. Anyway, i got the car in the shop about 2 weeks ago and now its fixed. I know there was a short somewhere, but im not really sure what it was, i didnt ask. The guy also says that he didnt think it was related to the alarm installation. IM not really sure what im going to do now, ive asked a few shops if they would install it and most said no. There is pretty much only one shop in town that would likely do it, and they are also the most expensive. Im thinking aobut trying this again, can anyone who has installed this specific alarm before confirm that the page that has all of the connections on it is absoluetely correct and there isnt anything overlooked. thanx
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