Car won't start, stall, die saga continues - Page 3 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 07-30-2004, 09:11 AM   #21
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Default Pickin her up today

I will be picking up my Bonnie today from the dealership. No work has been done to it. Just a diagnostics. Unfortunatley, I have to pay $125 to have it towed to my house. Again, I won't be able to work on it this weekend. If someone could give me a list of things to check for this dilemma, it would be very helpful. The dealership says the fuel pump is no good. Yet, I have read other ppl say they changed fuel pump relays and it fixed it. So, could everyone give me a list of things to check and troubleshoot. That would be helpful.
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Old 07-31-2004, 01:30 AM   #22
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Nate'* car is still down. I took the meter to the plug that connects the fuel pump to the system, and it showed voltage for 2 seconds or so, then off, just like it'* supposed to do. This was with his old PCM (I tried a new one.. ), but the pump still didn't make noise. This means the problem must be from the connector back, I would say.

So, out came the tank again. I will attach some pics. One shows the tank on the ground by the Bonneville. The other is the resistance of the motor on the 200 Ohm setting of the meter (.6), the other I need help with. What is this thing? (red arrow points to it) Is it some sort of pressure sensor? Could it control the pump operation in any way?

Thanks in advance.

JC



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Old 07-31-2004, 02:38 AM   #23
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Is that the fuel level sending unit?
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Old 07-31-2004, 09:03 AM   #24
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The sending unit is the big one with the fuel lines, that the pump is attached to. I don't know what the little 3 wire deal is. That is my question.

Thanks in advance.
JC
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Old 07-31-2004, 12:55 PM   #25
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Default fuel tank removal

Haven't had the chance to look under my car since it has been towed back in. How hard is it to remove the fuel tank. What?, 2 bolts that hold the straps and thats that? Or is their more to it?
Also, when I left the car last Saturday to be towed, the power windows would not work, which means that the drivers side window was down. I get the car back yesterday after the dealership looked at it, and all the windows were back up. How did they do that when I can't get them to go back up?
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Old 07-31-2004, 12:58 PM   #26
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Default Fuel pump?

Where exactly is the fuel pump located? Inside the tank, or external?
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Old 08-01-2004, 01:37 AM   #27
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Default The Bonneville is ALIVE!

Last night, I dropped the gas tank again to check the pump connections.
...................
I have done this twice in the last month, so here'* the procedure:
loosen up the exhaust so it can be lowered to clear the tank. There are 2 rubber rings near the cat., take out a couple of the 7 mm sheet metal screws surrounding the O2 sensor and lower it out of the way. Take the loops off the rubber isolators in the back. put a jack under it and lower it down, but support it so you don't mess with the front maniforl connection with springs.
There are 2 hoses for the gas fill you will have to loosen up & pull off.
2 bolts to take the straps off at the back. (one of mine had a clip break, and I had to cut the strap, and drill out the head of the bolt to get it out. partszoneonline has the cheapest I found for straps, clips, and bolts. (8.25 Vs. 26.00 locally)
There are 3 gas line connections with quick clips, and 2 electricall lines. I was told that the 3 wire one in an earlier post was the "Fuel Low" light on the dash sensor. The 4 wire is the gas sending unit level and pump. Watch the brake line on the way down. Get as much gas out of the tank as you can. You might need to siphon it out of the large rubber hose , if you can't get through the flap on the side (I did),

Installation is the reverse
..................
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED TODAY-----------
The fuel pump worked on it'* own with a battery charger for a power source.
The signal from the connector showed 11+ volts for a 2 second interval, just as it should.
There was no voltage on the pump side of the connector though.

I spoke with a friend on the phone for some advise I figured out that the pin for the ground was bad on the connector, so I bought a trailer hitch type 4 pin connector for the time being.
I changed the connector, soldering all splices.
Now, the pump side of the trailer connector was showing voltage too.
When you plugged it in, there was still no pump action

I was getting pissed at another lost day of work for no progress. Cindy & I were arguing over parting it out, or towing it in to see if we could get any money for it. (We have been together nearly 30 years. This was a fight by our standards. We nearly always discuss things, and it never even gets the least bit heated. I was really stressing out). She grabbed a beer, and so did I to calm our spirits.

I got to thinking.... What about running a hot from the accessories terminals I set up inside, just to see if it runs on that, straight to the pump. I tried it, and nothing.

Then I thought (Elementary my dear Watson) what about the ground? I drilled a hole in the frame near the fuel filter, and connected it to the ground wire for the pump, and it fired up, just like it'* supposed to for a couple seconds. I went in the back where Cindy was watering her flowers (her therapy), and told her to turn on the key, with me underneath, so I could believe what I was seeing and hearing. Sure enough, the pump was working!

She helped with the jack to raise the tank back up Don't you just love a woman that isn't afraid to grab a jack handle? (... I could get more descriptive, but I think you can tell by our long standing relationship....)

I got it back on the ground, siphoned about a half tank out of the El Camino that was in the Bonneville to begin with, and it fired right up every time, I drove up the block without incident too.

The windows work again too. These were not working during this pump issue. Where would the ground for both of these originate from?????? There may be another problem down the line if this connection is bad!

I am glad I didn't buy more expensive modules and sensors. I'm even happier that I found the problem, instead of paying some nimrod at a dealer, for NOT finding it, but replacing $700.00 worth of parts.

I am in need of some serious prayers to keep this thing rolling till Nate is old enough to get a car with a warranty. Then I'll be off the hook for this stuff. He will be 18 in October, and will be starting to build credit of his own, so he can get something more reliable. To me, this is the only problem he has had with it, and it IS reliable, but I can see how he would mistrust it, having stranded him several times.

I suggest a 1969 Camaro RS convertible I saw at Volo auto museum last weekend for $12K. No sensors, except for the gauges!

Thanks for all the advise!
JC
---
John Christensen
NECOA #042 1984 El Camino
http://home.comcast.net/~johncgg/elcamino.htm
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Old 08-10-2004, 08:12 PM   #28
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Default FOUND THE PROBLEM

This has been cross posted...


After talkin with a few ham buddies on another website, I have finally found the problem!! On the drivers side floor is a bundle of wires. Inside the bundle is a 7 connector ground terminal. This connector uses I guess a shorting bar which grounds everything together. Take a look at the pictures... http://home.twcny.rr.com/kc2jga/ After cleaning all the contacts, I removed the temporary ground wire from the fuel pump harness and the car fired up first time. No issues, even after yanking on the ground harness. Hopefully the administrators of this site will be kind enough to turn this thread into a sticky?!
Thanks again everyone!!!
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Old 08-17-2004, 12:35 AM   #29
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Great link! I'll be checking this out!
JC for Nate
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