97 bonnaville surging with the torque convertor locked - Page 12 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 01-06-2005, 09:25 AM   #111
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I drove the car to work last night, and havent noticed any problems yet, so far so good, I still feel the tcc engage and disenage, but thats normal, seems alil harsh than I would expect for a bonni, but for the most part it looks like a flush and and an aux cooler might be the answer (on my trans anyway) , the real test will come this weekend when I have time to drive it, I think I might need a bigger cooler, I know some of ya have that done already, but I thought it was worth my 2 cents, while I'm on the subject, I found this wire harness in my console, it'* fairly small with about 5 wires, I suspect this is for the factory trac control/performance shift option that I currently don't have, can anyone verify this for me? By the way, I just looked at intense'* web site, nice! too bad they dont have anything for the series 1 3800 bonni :( but oh well, I'm starting to become more interested in reprogramming my computer
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Old 01-06-2005, 01:11 PM   #112
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I appreciate all the info you posted MrHart. You seem to be better at taking action to fix your problems than I am, lol. Every little bit of info we can dig up on these transmissions/torque converters is great, so hopefully your findings can help someone else down the road. I'm still eagerly awaiting a little warm weather so I can determine whether or not my new PCM has made a difference in TC lockup.
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Old 01-07-2005, 09:57 AM   #113
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I'm still not sure weather or not the cooler idea is the asnwer, I was talking to my sisters husband about it who has his own shop, and he told me that the temp sensor and solenoids may still have to be replaced, and I think he may be right, cause something had to go wrong to begin with, and as far as the trans temp being over 300*F he said that if it really was that high, my car would'nt still be driving, so it looks like the temp sensor, may be the root of the problem, according to him the computer goes into a defalt when the temp reaches somwhere in the nieghbor hood of 220*F leaving only 3 gears since the tcc and 4th gear cause the most heat, so I'll probably still be looking at trans service in the near future, but he did say I might be able to getaway with just replacing the electronics in the trans, instead of a complete rebuild since it shifts fine I knew I should'nt have bought another automatic I gaurantee this, my next car will not be automatic
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:53 AM   #114
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okay, a little clarification. i haven't read the entire thread, but i'll assume for the moment that you're using a 4t65. the 4t60 is a wee bit different. this is from the 4t65 manual...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra-matic 4T65-E Technician’* Guide
The PCM measures this voltage as another input in order to help control
line pressure, shift schedules, and TCC apply. When the transmission fluid
temperature reaches 130°C (266°F), the PCM enters hot mode. Above this
temperature the PCM modifies the transmission shift schedules and the TCC
apply in an attempt to reduce the fluid temperature by reducing the transmission
heat generation. During hot mode the PCM applies the TCC at all times in Third
and Fourth gears. Also, the PCM performs the 2-3 and the 3-4 shifts earlier in
order to help reduce heat generation. The PCM stays in hot mode until the
temperature drops below 120°C (248°F).
you actually generate less heat with the tcc applied, as you have a solid coupling.
think if you will for a minute, of two fans facing each other. you turn on one fan, and it makes the other move. That'* basically what your torque convertor is. very basically. except instead of using air, you're using fluid. and when you do not have a direct link between engine and transmission (via tcc lock), you're pushing fluid back and forth between these two 'fans'. any time you do that, you're a) wasting energy, as it'* a fluid coupling, and will never have 100% efficiency, and b) generating heat. any time you don't have 100% efficiency, the energy is going somewhere. in this case, it'* moving to heat in the fluid. lockup reduces the heat made by your tranny.

as a side note, this is why you're told to never hold your car on a hill without the breaks, even though your tranmission can do it. while you're being held there, all of the engine power is being pushed by one fan to the other - but the other side is only accepting as much energy as it needs to stay where it is (until you provide enough energy to overcome the incline). the rest of the energy is lost as heat. this heat build-up can be extreme at times, and has caused torque convertors to balloon. and that'* no good.
short periods of time don't really hurt, and your tranny can technically take it just fine - but the danger (while small) is present.

if you have a 60, i can post the text from that manual as well, if you're interested.
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:54 AM   #115
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heck, why not just post it now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra-matic 4T60-E Technician’* Guide
HOT MODE OPERATION:
If transmission fluid temperatures become excessively high, above
approximately 130°C (266°F), the PCM modifies shift pattern and
TCC schedules to reduce the heat generated by fluid coupling in
the torque converter. These events occur during “hot mode” operation
when the PCM commands the transaxle into the lower gear
ranges (3rd or 2nd gear) and applies the TCC.
If a situation occurs where a short or open detected in the circuit,
the PCM uses coolant temperature sensor information for transmission
temperature.
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Old 01-08-2005, 06:58 AM   #116
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wow man, you didnt have to get an attitude about it, I want this situation corrected as much as the next guy, mabe a bit more than the next guy, I'm only going by what I'm told and what I'm reading, unfortunatly I dont have a transmission manual to read trough like you seem to have as I dont have a means to service it my self, though I would if I had the facilities, therefore I dont have a use for the book, saving my self money in the procces, and I dont know anyone who does, and ferther more if you'd had posted that along time ago, mabe some of us would have been able to use this info to look for another potential problem, but what ever the problem is it'* causing the tcc and 4th gear to not apply at hiway speeds after a prolonged period of time, and thats for sure, mabe you manual could shed some light on that! The only way to get my 4th gear and tcc back is to shut off the car, witch can be dangerous like steering around a curve
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Old 01-08-2005, 07:07 AM   #117
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Oh yeah guys I forgot to add that sometimes my car will downshift for no reason at all mostly with the cruise control on, even going down a slight grade or level ground and its not just once and thats it, it'll keep doing it, sometimes it wont downshift unless it needs to, and its fine. Really weird, anyone else have this problem? and I still dont know what that harness is that I found in my console, every wire diagram I looked at dont show much, I think I might have to take a trip to the library
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Old 01-12-2005, 12:10 AM   #118
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Default Chug vs. Surge

Brand new to the forum. I have a question that'* posted in the 92-99 forum about a chugging problem aroung 1500 rpm. But can someone define what surging is? My rpms remain pretty steady when it is chugging. I just hit the gas to get through it and it is fine. So am I experiencing the famous surging problem or is my problem something different? Thanks
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:28 AM   #119
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When my car "surges" it feels like it'* alternately speeding up and slowing down in rapid succession. The RPMs fluctuate anywhere from 100-500 when it'* doing this, and it generally happens on inclines at cruising speed when it feels like the car should be downshifting. My problem doesn't feel like an ignition issue to me; rather, I think it'* related to a transmission or torque converter malfunction. More specifically, I've started to believe it'* a problem with one of the control inputs in the car, namely the PCM. My problem seems to have disappeared with the installation of my Intense PCM, but time will tell. Hope this helps.
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:04 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMrHart2u
wow man, you didnt have to get an attitude about it, I want this situation corrected as much as the next guy, mabe a bit more than the next guy, I'm only going by what I'm told and what I'm reading, unfortunatly I dont have a transmission manual to read trough like you seem to have as I dont have a means to service it my self, though I would if I had the facilities, therefore I dont have a use for the book, saving my self money in the procces, and I dont know anyone who does, and ferther more if you'd had posted that along time ago, mabe some of us would have been able to use this info to look for another potential problem, but what ever the problem is it'* causing the tcc and 4th gear to not apply at hiway speeds after a prolonged period of time, and thats for sure, mabe you manual could shed some light on that! The only way to get my 4th gear and tcc back is to shut off the car, witch can be dangerous like steering around a curve


did i have an attitude? i was just posting what'* in the manual to try to help you understand what'* going on?
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