97 bonnaville surging with the torque convertor locked - Page 5 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 09-15-2004, 02:08 AM   #41
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For along time I have seen this problem.
Yes, replacing the coil could solve this problem, maybe..
It is cheaper, I went for it.
It didnt work for me or may others.

The nut has been cracked.
In most cases it is the tranny.

Especially in a 92
I did put a bad coil in and had somewhat of a experience of a bad tranny but not even close
to what a bad Tcc soleniod feels like.
When it really gets bad the computer will lock up and you cant get past 3th gear.

B.E
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Old 09-15-2004, 02:14 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserBrett
For along time I have seen this problem. Yes, replacing the coil could solve this problem, maybe.. It is cheaper, I went for it. It didnt work for me or may others.

The nut has been cracked. In most cases it is the tranny.


B.E
Cheaper has nothing to do with it. A failed TCC solonoid that you describe would be indicated by a code set in the PCM. Very easy to diagnose, even by simply looking to see if your RPM'* are correct with TC lockup or not.

In most cases, the problem described is NOT the tranny. It RARELY is. 9/10 of the time, it'* ignition related. The other 1/10 of the time is split evenly between fuel and trans.

Coils should be tried because they're cheaper. They should be diagnosed, then changed if bad. Unless you have known good coils to swap in at no cost (borrow them).

Spending money to fix an unknown problem will drain you VERY fast. Patience is the key. Logical troubleshooting steps ending in identifying the failed part, then fix ONE problem.

I'm not usually one for quoting myself, but I feel it'* necessary now:

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Quote:
Originally Posted by big_news_1
hey man, thanks for responding. don't bother with the coils... i just got brand new MSDs and the problem has not changed at all... where to go from here??? methinks the pcm is the culprit.
I think telling someone else not to try coils is a bad idea. It may not have solved your problem, but it may solve theirs.

Coils are a prime culprit. They can fail only when hot. I had two stock coils fail in this manner.

Keep in mind that each of you may be dealing with different problems. Don't discount trying something if it didn't help another.

Even simply checking the resistance of plug wires can be a huge benefit in troubleshooting this. But that can't answer all. Plug wires can read fine, but still short to ground somewhere else. They have to be carefully inspected.

Pulling your plugs and 'reading' them can be of huge benefit. They can indicate coolant leaks, oil leaks, lean conditions, or misfires if you know what you're looking for.
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Old 09-15-2004, 02:51 AM   #43
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If the problem was so easy to fix why are so many people having a problem and the nut cant be cracked.
Yes I did get a code that ther was a Tcc problem but only after a long time.
A long TIME.
At first I did not have a code reader. Like most of us. And it did not show up on the service light, reading the code.
Yes you are right.about the RPM
Look at my past posts with this problem.
I see your concern,
but This problem sucks!
And For me it was not Electrical.
Just trying to help
And the switch works!
Thanks
B.E.
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Old 09-15-2004, 03:55 AM   #44
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P.*.
All you have to do is touch your brakes and drive with the brakes barely on and if your problems goes away.
You most likely found your problem.
Tcc
B.E.
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Old 09-15-2004, 04:56 AM   #45
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4T40e trans:

"...customer complaints of Surge/Chuggle/Slip while cruising between 45-60 mph. The driver may notice a fluctuation between 20-300 RPM on the tachometer. This condition maybe caused by variation in the torque converter clutch slip speed.

In order to test for this condition, this vehicle must have no codes, be at normal operating temperature, with TCC applied, cruising between 45-60 mph. Monitor TCC slip on the scanner. If the TCC slip fluctuates between 20-300 RPM with a duty cycle between 25-50% then command TCC full apply (99% PMW). If this eliminates the concern, re-calibrate the PCM with the appropriate calibration. "

Service Bulletin for '94 Olds with 3.8:

376517A AUG 94 PROM - Chuggle Above 36mph w/Torque Converter Engaged


Both are similar situations, both are inside the PCM...I guess if all else fails

Other option includes:

"The heat generated by the transmission wears out the additives in the fluid over time and, when this happens, the coefficient of friction changes. This not only affects shifting, it can cause a slip-stick condition in the lock-up torque converter"
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Old 09-15-2004, 12:27 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big_news_1
that does help, thanks for the info. i don't know how much good all my questioning can do, i guess i just want to get an idea of who'* experiencing this problem, their trim level & mods, and what they've done to try and fix it. wasn't there a guy who had a whole new torque converter and tranny put in and he still had the problem? i can't remember where i read that. so anyhow get this. i sent a pm to marksssei about the problem, cuz he claimed earlier in the thread that cleaning his maf solved his woes. he is still surge-free, with a clean maf plus the addition of an INTENSE pcm. i just wonder if there'* something in the stock programming that goes awry. is this even possible i wonder???
I removed the MAF screen and cleaned the sensor with Electrical cleaner. I also cleaned the TB (scrubbed it like new) and it gave the car more power and smoothness, but the surging is still there.

Isnt the programming in the PCM? So if I changed the PCM to one from a car that isnt surging, then my car shouldnt surge either.
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Old 09-15-2004, 12:30 PM   #47
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[quote="macho_mike21"]What is with these 97 bonnies?!?!

Its not just 97'*. My 92 is the one with the major problem. My 97 sometimes slips going into OD but only rarely.
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Old 09-15-2004, 12:35 PM   #48
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Hey Dr Jay,

So are you saying replacing the PCM should resolve this? I have a 92 and a 97 Bonneville (the 97 is an SSEi) - are the PCM'* the same? Can I swap them for testing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJay
4T40e trans:

"...customer complaints of Surge/Chuggle/Slip while cruising between 45-60 mph. The driver may notice a fluctuation between 20-300 RPM on the tachometer. This condition maybe caused by variation in the torque converter clutch slip speed.

In order to test for this condition, this vehicle must have no codes, be at normal operating temperature, with TCC applied, cruising between 45-60 mph. Monitor TCC slip on the scanner. If the TCC slip fluctuates between 20-300 RPM with a duty cycle between 25-50% then command TCC full apply (99% PMW). If this eliminates the concern, re-calibrate the PCM with the appropriate calibration. "

Service Bulletin for '94 Olds with 3.8:

376517A AUG 94 PROM - Chuggle Above 36mph w/Torque Converter Engaged


Both are similar situations, both are inside the PCM...I guess if all else fails

Other option includes:

"The heat generated by the transmission wears out the additives in the fluid over time and, when this happens, the coefficient of friction changes. This not only affects shifting, it can cause a slip-stick condition in the lock-up torque converter"
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Old 09-15-2004, 01:08 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by along
Hey Dr Jay,

So are you saying replacing the PCM should resolve this? I have a 92 and a 97 Bonneville (the 97 is an SSEi) - are the PCM'* the same? Can I swap them for testing?

They are not compatible. Only another 92 will work.
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Old 09-15-2004, 01:10 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserBrett
P.*.
All you have to do is touch your brakes and drive with the brakes barely on and if your problems goes away.
You most likely found your problem.
Tcc
B.E.
Brett, the switch you installed (or driving with your brakes on) didn't do anything but prevent the TCC from locking up. I'd be curious to see what your freeway mileage is, since you now don't have overdrive or cruise control.

I'm still not convinced you have a problem with the trans, unless the TCC code persists.

The reason these problems are more apparent with the TCC locked up is that ignition misses are more apparent in OD at low RPM'* under load. These are the conditions that the vast majority of ignition problems are noticed under.
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