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Old 07-25-2007, 01:18 PM   #11
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Post up on ClubGP.com (a nationwide Grand Prix forum), also...there'* ALOT of dudes on that forum w/Tuners, and likely a few in your area.

Not to put you on the spot, but your case illustrates my opinion that a Tuner is a better deal in the long run than a pre-packaged reprogrammed PCM.
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Old 07-25-2007, 03:25 PM   #12
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Interestingly, I installed 3rd PCM at the request of INTENSE and still the fans do not come on when off. They concluded:

"We have tried various fan on/off settings with the climate system and we have verified that we correctly set the settings in your code. This leaves the possibility that HP Tuners does not program the 99 model year Bonneville correctly when it comes to this setting. We can work with HP Tuners but it unknown how long that may take and whether they will even do anything about it (they tend to back burner older model year programming problems and concentrate on the new better selling stuff)."

I would love to go to a competitor. Any suggestions?

p.*. - no CASE learn is needed since I'm returning 3rd PCM and putting back in the 2nd.
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Old 07-25-2007, 03:42 PM   #13
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Your post is quite intersting to me. My personal experience with Intense has been nothing short of a world class vendor that is willing to go to great lengths.

While the tone of your post is a bit hostile...I'm looking at it unbiasedly and am thinking of anything that might cause your year or car not to work properly with this change in the PCM. Afterall...we all can get hot under the collar when things don't go well for us.

As for other vendors.. there is ZZP, as well as programming your own pcm with DHP or an HP Tuner.
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Old 07-25-2007, 06:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrazela
Post up on ClubGP.com (a nationwide Grand Prix forum), also...there'* ALOT of dudes on that forum w/Tuners, and likely a few in your area.

Not to put you on the spot, but your case illustrates my opinion that a Tuner is a better deal in the long run than a pre-packaged reprogrammed PCM.
Exactly. It doesn't take very long to realize that $100 for the PCM, plus $100 for the dealer to do a case learn, then still having problems with it, having to take it out, etc....., that you could've bought a tuner used for around $300, be able to do your own case learns, make your own PCM'*, clear your own codes, and tune your car without having to go with a mini-afc or something like that.

Buying a pcm from a vendor doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me anymore. Now a few years ago it was pretty much your only option, but anymore I just dont get it. I love my powertuner and never leave home without it, literally.
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Old 07-25-2007, 06:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99SSEI
I would love to go to a competitor. Any suggestions?
www.digitalhorsepowerinc.com
www.zzperformance.com
www.hptuners.com
I believe a company called Overkill does PCM'* and probably a host of other independants with a PCM programmer may be able to fill the need.

A PCM from ZZP or DHP will require a CASE learn.

You can do you own CASE learns with most PCM Programmers available.

I'm sorry we were unable to make you happy. Please feel free to return your PCM for a full refund.
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Old 07-25-2007, 07:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbtk2
Quote:
Originally Posted by agrazela
Post up on ClubGP.com (a nationwide Grand Prix forum), also...there'* ALOT of dudes on that forum w/Tuners, and likely a few in your area.

Not to put you on the spot, but your case illustrates my opinion that a Tuner is a better deal in the long run than a pre-packaged reprogrammed PCM.
Exactly. It doesn't take very long to realize that $100 for the PCM, plus $100 for the dealer to do a case learn, then still having problems with it, having to take it out, etc....., that you could've bought a tuner used for around $300, be able to do your own case learns, make your own PCM'*, clear your own codes, and tune your car without having to go with a mini-afc or something like that.

Buying a pcm from a vendor doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me anymore. Now a few years ago it was pretty much your only option, but anymore I just dont get it. I love my powertuner and never leave home without it, literally.
As wonderous and utopian as this sounds it is definately not for everyone. Sure having ultimate power over your PCM is a great tool but just as any power can be used for good or evil this ability to do whatever you want to your PCM can be nirvana or devastation.

When people purchase a PCM from us they don't just purchase the few minutes it takes to put code into a computer they purchase the time it takes to get the latest operating system from GM which applies any updates that may be out for that vehicle. They purchase the tuning knowledge that we gained and applied over the years we spent tuning these cars. They purchase the prompt and friendly customer service that we provide. They purchase the time and care we take to put the correct year code along with the correct VIN into the correct PCM part number.

I have no problem at all with people who buy tuners to tune their car as long as they know what they are doing and how changing a table affects 12 other tables or tables relate to each other. I also have no problem listing our competitors because I know what their customer service is like, I've seen the code they use and the parameters they change. I know in the end that we produce the best tunes both mail order as well as dynotuned and if a programming bug that wont let fans come on while the car is off is enough to cause you to give up the things that matter most (safety, reliability and performance) for a competitors tune then thats your choice to make.
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Old 07-25-2007, 09:40 PM   #17
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I put a ZZP PCM in my 99 SSEi and had a Pontiac Dealer do the CASE Learn for $15.
I will probably have it done again in a few short weeks because I am planning on sending it in to Intense to have it done right (ZZP didn't tune it for fan on after shutting the car off, no perf shift mode upping rpms, improper/no downshifting, and an extremely rich appetite for fuel).
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue

As wonderous and utopian as this sounds it is definately not for everyone. Sure having ultimate power over your PCM is a great tool but just as any power can be used for good or evil this ability to do whatever you want to your PCM can be nirvana or devastation.
That is a very good point. Tuning definately isn't for everyone and you don't want to jump into it with no experience. So for some people just buying a PCM from a vendor and putting it in may be the answer they are looking for, it all depends on how far they want to take their car. If its just a bolt on car then getting a tuner isn't going to be as beneficial as it would be to someone with a cam and heavier mods.

However, if you do have a car that you plan on taking far, with the forums that dhp has, ht tuners has, and the clubgp tuning forum along with I'm sure many other forums, it really isn't that hard to walk yourself through tuning a car. With some research and being smart enough to know to take it one step at a time, someone with no experience could tune a car in pretty well if they are patient and willing to learn.

Quote:
I have no problem at all with people who buy tuners to tune their car as long as they know what they are doing and how changing a table affects 12 other tables or tables relate to each other. I also have no problem listing our competitors because I know what their customer service is like, I've seen the code they use and the parameters they change. I know in the end that we produce the best tunes both mail order as well as dynotuned and if a programming bug that wont let fans come on while the car is off is enough to cause you to give up the things that matter most (safety, reliability and performance) for a competitors tune then thats your choice to make.
Not to argue with you here at all because I have seen all the vendors PCM codes (at least the ones you listed above) just as you have and I dont necessarily agree with a few things that each of them do, but I hope you at least warned the guy before you added 3* of timing to his PCM that hes about to put on a car with a 3.5 pulley and pretty much no other mods, IMO that throws the safety right out of your tune. However, I also agree with you that it is kinda stupid to switch to a completely different PCM for the sole reason that his fans won't stay on when he shuts the car off, but I do understand where he is coming from if the vendor stated he would have that feature and he does not. So I guess thats kinda a wash.
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Old 07-26-2007, 02:09 PM   #19
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I think at this point, my options are futile. I don't have, nor would I want to go back to the OEM PCM and if I wanted to go to another competitor, I would still have to get the CASE learn done again. I'm truly hoping HP Tuners can add the fan on feature to the code for INTENSE and eventually I'll get what I paid for. Not only for me, but for anyone else that has a 99' SSEi. I agree that not having the fans come on at shut down is not enough to justify swapping out PCMs. I think the experience was just down right awful. Although, to their credit, I am grateful that INTENSE diagnosed the issue pre-CASE learn procedure and saved me $118.

I think I would've been happy or somewhat satisfied with my experience if I were offered even a mild discount on something I really wanted....like a scan gauge (hint, hint). But hey, hindsight is always 20/20.
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Old 07-26-2007, 03:12 PM   #20
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Maybe if you weren't pushing quite so hard (hint hint) and were willing to work through this (wink wink) things could have been different for you.

As for the case learn..many here have given you suggestions for lower cost or free case learns, yet it appears you haven't explored those options. Before I looked around I would have had to pay for a learn if I needed one. People made similar suggestions and my case learns have been free while relaxing and talking cars with buddies.

On another note..if you are modded heavily enough to need a 160.(not indicated in sig)...I need to wonder if you shouldn't be seeking another option besides off the shelf pcm as Shawn had eluded.
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