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Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 08-16-2007, 09:45 AM   #21
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The point I'm trying to make is that if you have a choice, why would you choose perhaps the worst material KNOWN for an intake?

You are heatsoaking that pipe. I've done enough heatsoak tests under my own hood to know that, without even having to look up the thermal properties of PVC.

You may be happy with it, but I will reiterate that PVC is the worst possible thing you can make an intake out of.
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Old 08-16-2007, 03:16 PM   #22
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i think i might get some of that tube from intense get a cone filter keep part of the stock tube and rig up something $170 is too much.
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Old 08-16-2007, 07:57 PM   #23
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I rigged up a universal CAI to fit my bonnie, just looked at your local parts store, it was under $30, at least its a 3" tube.

http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...377&highlight=

I have since gotten rid of the tiny-butt filter for a K&N slip on. Mucho better now!! doesnt sound like its sucking through a straw. I still need to re-due the wall cause I moved somethings around, finish the PCM bracket and I also fabbed up a scoop/tube setup to direct air up towards they CAI, will have pics up soon.

Willwren is totally right, just like a bunch of other times. Even with the alky injection, if you had a non PVC tube, the temps would be THAT MUCH COLDER with an INTENSE- style FWI or other material, I dont have one cause I cant afford one right now, I will, cause Im sure it flows better than my setup, but hey, Ive spent $50 and its gets the job done. Fabbin up stuff makes me brain work better also!!! ha
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Old 08-17-2007, 12:36 PM   #24
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is there anyway i could get it without the filter? because that is probably most or half of the cost and i already have a 9'' filter
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Old 08-17-2007, 01:09 PM   #25
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A 3.5" FWI will probably hurt your performance. Anything L27 and older, and the 91-93 L67'* should stick with an intake diameter of no more than 3".

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Let'* say an L27 flows about 335 cfm @ 5000 rpm'*.
For comparison, let’* throw in a 94/95 L67 (chosen because I have the flow data on the Gen3 M62 handy, and not the Gen2). The L67 will flow roughly 40% more at 5000 rpm’*. (Someone please check my math on that 335cfm please, I’m thinking way ahead of my typing…..number accuracy isn’t guaranteed, but these are good for comparison for the time being).

*****Important thought to keep in mind*****
The M90 doesn’t actually flow more than an M62 in our application. Our bore and stroke as well as compression ratio’* amongst the various L67’* are the same, and the M62 simply spins faster to flow the same amount per stroke as the slower-spinning M90 due to the diameter difference in the rotors. The M90 is more efficient in moving the same amount of air the Series 1 moves, making the boost charge a lower temperature. Comparing stock-stock, the Gen3-equipped M62 Series 1 and the Gen3 equipped M90 Series 2 will flow the same amount of air at the same RPM.

Back to our regularly scheduled programming…….

So we have a 40% flow difference between the L27 and the Gen3 M62 equipped L67 at 5000 rpm’*. The throttle plates are also different. The Gen3 M62 TB on the 94/95 L67’* is about 25% larger than the L27. Not 40%, but it doesn’t need to be if we’re forcing the air through instead of ‘naturally aspirating’ it. There is a downside to this (heat) but that’* another topic altogether.

Now let’* step back a bit and discuss ‘what works’ based on the experiences of our members. Back in the day, ADTR calculated the ‘ideal’ intake pipe diameter at 3”. This was based on what MOST of us were flowing. A lot fewer of us were modified very much if at all 4 or 5 years ago. I ran that 3” intake all the way through last season when I discovered I was at the point where I was probably capable of out-flowing it. Knowing I was going to port my heads, change my rocker ratio, and a few other things, and knowing I was already flowing more than most mildly modded Series 2 L67’*, I stepped up to the 3.5” FWI based also partially on INTENSE’* research. If it’* a good intake size for a modded S2 L67, and I flow as much or more than some of them, it should be a good size for me. OldBlueEyes also did some back-to-back comparisons with a 3” CAI (good quality) and a 3.5” FWI while running a 3.4” pulley on a S2. He was actually able to feel the improvement of the 3.5” FWI.

If we can A$$-U-ME based on our collective experience and that of some of our vendors that the L67 market is well-served by a 3.5” intake, and we know the flow differences between the L27 and L67 (stated above) we can draw some rough conclusions and see what comes out.

Using simple algebra to see what the ‘suggested’ pipe diameter at the L27’* 335 CFM flow would be if the 450CFM pipe is 3.5”, I came up with 2.6”. Don’t go to the bank on this just yet, it’* just the first step in comparing them and to prove a point.

Now let’* look at the AREA (determining flow capability) of a 3.5” tube:
9.62 is the answer. Keep in mind the Area is the important calculation here, not the diameter of the tube due to the pi function……as a comparison, a 3.5” tube is only 16% larger than a 3” when comparing diameter, but not when you correctly compare area, which is what we’re interested in).

For a 3” tube, the area is 7.07.

Flow difference? 36%. Pretty close to that 40% number right?

We’ve obviously not taken into account the VE numbers or anything else like that, and I don’t have the time right now to go into it, but the whole point of this exercise was to come up with some kind of guide for determining the properly sized intake for an L27. There’* a lot of different ways to do this, but based on what I just ran through quickly, it looks like our ‘standard’ suggestion of 3” CAI or FWI for basically stock or mildly modded cars is about right. Even stock Series 1 L67’* (particularly 91-93) are probably very well suited for the 3”. There could be some gray area here, and calculating where the L36 falls is another question as well, although we know they flow somewhere between the L27 and L67 at WOT. Go 3.25” on those. (joke there, not going into that discussion today).

/class
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Old 08-17-2007, 03:40 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtracr95
is there anyway i could get it without the filter? because that is probably most or half of the cost and i already have a 9'' filter
INTENSE sells just the tube, yes.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:16 PM   #27
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But as stated above, that 3.5" tubing is far too large for his application.
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Old 08-17-2007, 07:32 PM   #28
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Yup, my bad!!!! dont listen to me!!
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