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Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 02-02-2005, 07:22 PM   #71
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ok, i think i get it,
if i do then it'* like,
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automa...nsmission3.htm
If you set thier animation to the first option, is this what your talking about?
That'* a-lot of moving parts, esp. the smaller faster spinning wheels(for lack of a better word) Would they spin too fast?
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Old 02-02-2005, 09:05 PM   #72
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just like in the first option, but the last option would package better as a belt drive setup, and hold the planets still with the sungear turning backwards but that would require significant reengineering of the SC (like the snout would have to be "flipped" and drive the other lobe instead)
but the first one is the easiest to adapt to what is needed with only a little SC modification
and the planet gears themself have needle bearings and can handle rpms no prob, since the (planet gear) carrier is moving slower than the sun.
i think i have figured how to seal it up to keep some grease/gearoil from flinging everywhere LOL
anyone from Intense look at this yet? your .02?
schlim
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Old 02-03-2005, 01:36 AM   #73
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so you could run the SC on either high or low, depending on what you are doing? Am I correct?
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Old 02-03-2005, 02:07 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macho_mike21
so you could run the SC on either high or low, depending on what you are doing? Am I correct?
Tech Edge already has working M90 Boost Controllers on at least one off ZZP Camp'* cars. It works off your bypass on the blower.
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Old 02-05-2005, 03:01 AM   #75
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too much work, too expensive.

What makes you think there will be alot of belt slippage?
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Old 02-05-2005, 07:23 AM   #76
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there may not a whole lot of belt slipage but as you go to a smaller pulley to overspeed the blower and make more power you have less surface area of belt contact to drive the blower. and as you compress more air at higher pressures you run into the fact that the loads on the pulley/belt increase by several orders of magnitude (they estimate that the blower on a top fuel engine takes almost 700Hp to drive it at max power-remember they are making more than 6000 Hp-and have you ever seen how wide the belt is? it'* a gilmer belt to keep it from slipping and to prevent belt tensionloads that would kill the blower shaft bearings)
as you drive the blower to make twice as much power it take 4 times the energy to drive the blower the belt will slip-unless you increase the width of the belt, or the surface area (remember you lost allot of the surface area going to the smaller pulley) the other way would be to increase the pressure the belt places on the pulley (higher tension) but this would have the consequence of much higer loads on the crank/SC'* pulleys/bearings reducing the service life of them.
the best way around this is to gear up the supercharger to spin faster with a larger pulley, and since a custom machined (billet $$$) eaton snout with a planetary/spurgear inside the snout to drive the SC faster than the pulley is spinning (it would be at 4 inches etc for better belt grip) would cost allot to develop as well as manufacture (though you could make it with a 2 spd shiftable planetary-and change overdrives at the flick of a lever!).
I figured that this would be a practical alternative (as well as being able to package it at the tip of the snout-and not take up too much space) to reduce belt slippage which loses power (as well as it probably means better consistency in ET'*)
The other way would be to use a gilmer style belt to prevent the slippage but that would also necesitate custom pulleys etc
or you could drive a larger blower displacement at the same speed and make more boost but this would also require custom work as well as being a more expensive method (though much more efficient at compressing the air with less heat at the same SC shaft speed.
It was an idea i floated and wondered if anyone at Intense etc had thought of.
with this method you would have to do some work to a tranny planetary set and the only major mod i can see needing to be done is a bracket to hold the ring gear still, that bolts to the SC either to the bolts that hold the gearbox/snout on, or a simpler way would be an aluminum plate TIG welded to the snout in the right position that the ring gear would bolt to, and the sun gear would just have to be machined to press fit onto the SC shaft.

As soon as i find my autoCAD 3D cdrom (cant find it-found the books but no disc ) I will be working on packaging a design that would work, i can picture the design in my head (like the two small needle bearings to prevent runnout) but an actual diagram would be more explanatory and show how simple a design it is (besides you could drive the blower at a higher speed, like a 1 inch pulley LOL) and easy to implement-plus easy to change the drive ratio (just change the planet/sun gear sizes) without having to carry different belts.
its just an idea to fix a problem in an efficient way.
and still wondering if anyone at Intense has thought about something similar.
regards, James
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Old 02-05-2005, 09:46 PM   #77
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the SC is spinning at over 10,000 RPms, you will need a pretty strong gear set to withstand that.
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Old 02-06-2005, 05:12 AM   #78
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all ya need is a regular steel planetary, and remember the planets would be spinning at probably half that (the large pulley the belt turns) and only the sun gear (SC shaft will be spinning that fast.
the one planetary gear i have found that looks the easiest to modify is from a 413 3 spd automatic and believe me if it can handle a Chrysler 2.2 Turbo II, then the less than 50 hp that the eaton would need (guestimate here-need a spintron to test fer real lol) would be a piece of cake and last forever.
you have to admit that it'* a possibility making it work...
heres a pic of the rusty one, of the two i have, (other brand new in box)

and it i wouldnt mide modifying to see if it'd work-i had my friends supercharged Rivera over today and we were hashing it out and it honestly looks like it'll package in the space available no problem-just a little plasma/Mig/grinding (def need to call on my friend to use the Bridgport-he owes me anyway-for boring the sungear and trimming the one lip for the pulley surface and the two sides for some needle bearings.)
Deffinatly doable

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Old 02-06-2005, 05:56 AM   #79
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damn, if you don't do it you should talk zzp or intense into doing it. Less hp to drive the */c, faster spinning, no belt slip. That would be really awesome. I wonder if that kind of set up could work for p/* pumps waterpumps... I think they already have something like that on alternators now?
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Old 02-06-2005, 06:52 AM   #80
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alternators, water pumps and power steering pumps wouldnt need to be overdriven by the crankshaft more than could be acomplished with different sized belt pulleys (though if you see the alternators on spl vehicles some are driven by chains to prevent any slippage which would reduce the power available to power their many amps/subs)
though i havent heard of any alternators diven by planetarys there are setups for small/big block chevys where the alternator is "hidden" behind the water pump pulley (the stators are stationary on the pump and the magnets rotate around them (inside the pulley) to produce the power-it allows for a very clean looking engine compartment)

actually if you have cable and can see American Hotrod (Boyd Coddington'* garage)
the most recent project is a replica fiberglass Corvette split window coupe with a full on cage and twin turbo SBC you will see during the mockup that the water pump is one of these units (they didnt have the pulley on yet) because (presumably) of the lack of space for the twin turbochargers etc to be able to put a traditional alternator in the engine compartment.
one of the fringe benifits with the stationary stator design is no more wearing out brushes-though the voltage regulator is probably more complex (kinda like the difference between a regular RC car motor and one of the Brushless DC motors-the brushless DC motor is more efficient but the speed controller is larger and more complex.

oh and it wouldnt reduce the amout of power it takes to spin the SC faster (from frictiion/pumping losses/heat) cause no mater what, for a given SC shaft rpm it will take the same amount of power to drive it with the pulley or planetary setup-the planetary setup would improve the mechanical leverage the belt has on turning the SC shaft at the same speed as a reg pulley---with less/no belt slippage-which would let you drive the SC as fast as you want without worrying about belt wrap/contact area-like you would with a 1 inch dia pulley lol

I still want to play with the design on a CAD program before i go emailing them about it-maybe patent it first lol
Redneck Racin pulleys-sound good for a buisness name? lol J/k

I will continue to play with it but fer now it'* priority getting my Nova ready for racing season (new 200Hp N2O kit, JAZ fuel cell, etc, etc (i will break into the high 12'* at least! on the first trip to the track!) and also to get the twin engine 442 ready to pass a tech inspection so we can get some time slips!--at least untill they notice sumthins up (the exhaust tone from two v6'* is very different from one ) -if they do LOL I love Byrons lax tech inspection

oh and i found out that one of my fellow racers has his hands on a gallon of 50% nitromethane i wanna play with that! just give her a 2-3% mix to spice up the 114 VP
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