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Old 03-16-2013, 06:55 AM   #11
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Just as William was talking about, I'll add a specific area for you to look at....

https://www.gmforum.com/electrical-1...1999-a-303224/
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:05 PM   #12
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Thanks Mike - do you guys EVAH sleep!?! ;~)

Ok, this morning these are the steps I've been thru:
- battery has full charge 12.4V
- place key in ignition for normal start - no start (as always the engine turns over)
- leave key in RUN position for a few minutes - no start
- leave key in RUN position a little longer, all-pre start lights go out and clicking starts under hood while fuel pump continuously runs
- I investigate under hood and can't find source of heavy clicking however, can hear a click on the manifold, hear something like fuel flow AND electrical arching in the injectors that I can also feel - as if the car believes it is running but it is not! turn key off
- I pull the MAF sensor - is in correct position and I spray with ether and re-install
- try normal start w/o waiting and car struggles to start but does and runs cleanly
- leave running for a bit and engine seems to respond to all inputs as it should
- car continues to start on each subsequent attempt - I turn engine off
- I pull both Ground Buss plates and they are clean (I'd attach if I knew how?)
- ironically, car starts with Ground Buss plates out however, will not accelerate engine
- place both Ground Buss plates back in and car starts fine
- walk away 15 minutes, come back, car starts fine...

Can we say Gremlins anybody!?!

NOTE: when attempting to attach photos it was stating a URL...my photos are local, how do I put them on here, type out the full path to the file?
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:11 PM   #13
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you try replacing the fuel pump relay? check the socket to make sure the pins are tight while you have it out
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:18 PM   #14
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Can you get your fuel pressure checked?

We have another thread going in the Olds section about pretty much the same symptoms, but he just noticed he only has 14psi at the rail.

And no, I really don't get much sleep because of my work schedule.
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:55 PM   #15
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Fuel Pressure Checked
- 41psi while priming
- 37psi in static no-start/no-run
- 31psi in run

I need location of Fuel Pump Relay. I have a diagram of the rear engine compartment relays and the fuel pump is not listed. All I have found is the fuel pump fuse under the dash.

Let me re-hash where I'm at...
- very similar conditions to following thread
- https://www.gmforum.com/1992-1999-91...-start-302734/
- changed fuel filter
- changed fuel pump
- changed fuel pressure regulator
- changed CPS
- removed and cleaned
- MAF Sensor
- ICM and connections
- BUSS Grounds on both sides
- pellets on both keys
- cleaned all battery connections and wires
- cleaned Positive post in rear engine compartment
- built and tried VATS bypass
- verified spark

Most puzzling is the occassional clicking and arching of injectors with key in RUN position. Also sounds as if there is fuel flow at points during this anamoly. NOTE: ALL lights in dash are off when this occurs.

Tired of throwing parts at this. The referenced thread had the guy go thru 3 PCMs.

Is this where I am at...having to change it?

ANY and ALL help is and has been appreciated.

Happy St. Pat'* Day - I need to start drinking!
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:29 PM   #16
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pressure is low. i dont have a diagram for that car unfortunately, for relay location. not sure why it would be a little low unless you got a bad pump, fpr, maybe a leak somewhere. poor ground or power could cause it probably
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:10 PM   #17
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You state my fuel pressure is low...what is normal in all operating conditions?
I recall some numbers of 42-48psi however, and maybe this is a clue, I got the same fuel pressure with the original fuel pump as the new one.

- Question, if the pressure is low, will the PCM NOT fire the injectors? And if so, where does it read the pressure?

Also, all the reading I've done is telling me there is NO fuel pump relay, only the fuse. That the PCM controls the injector ground.

So, please read my last post as well as help me understand what vehicles; years and models; I can pull another PCM from OR, where I can purchase a new/rebuilt one AND, what do I have to do to it after I get it - reprogram, swap PROMs, etc. I've got two yards very near work.

Also, I'm assuming this PCM/ECM is th esame thing and is located in the area of the passenger kick-panel, correct?

I want to get this done and behind me...there is nothing more frustrating than continually trying MANY different things and NOTHING seems to work.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:54 AM   #18
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i read your posts, you should read mine and not focus your time on things that arent the problem. your pressure is low you need to figure out why.

your pcm has no way of knowing the fuel pressure. and normally gms have a relay, but i dont have a diagram for your car. gm even went so far in my owners manual just about everything says "see dealer"
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:13 AM   #19
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just for reference i had a problem with my truck, it was running bad and giving lean code, normal pressure is 58-65. it was 53 so i replaced the reg still was 53 and running bad, after a month of trying to figure it out i changed the crap regulator i bought (airtex or something) the pressure went to 58 and the truck was fine.

yours should run above 42-43, and they are very sensitive
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:51 AM   #20
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I just wanted to throw a little mention in here that the reason you can't read the diagnostic trouble codes is because your car has the OBD1.5 system. This is an OBD2 port with an enhanced OBD1 system. Similar to the OBD1 system, you can read some codes by bridging pins 3 and 4 with a paper clip (on OBD1 it is pins 1 and 2) and seeing how many times the Service Engine Soon light flashes, but to read any of the OBD2 type enhanced codes you need to have a scanner specific to OBD1.5.
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