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Old 10-02-2006, 03:20 PM   #1
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For those that have been following my rebuild progess, you will notice that it all came to a grinding halt after my move to Orlando, after the guy that was supposed to install my crankshaft, well, didn't. Which is fine...karma did get a hold of him, and must do some jailtime in Tennessee. So after a fellow member was gracious enough to keep my project at his place until I can get it running again, I go over there one day to discover that the crankshaft had become unusable. MAJORLY unusable. Moisture somehow found it'* way into the box, through the plastic, and onto semi-protected iron, so now I have a 200.00 paperweight

At that point I was about ready to just trash the whole project and convinced myself that the ONLY way this thing is going to run again is through a different engine. A few weeks later I go strolling in the junkyard and lo and behold....a motor already plucked out of a Buick, and only has 93k on it! So, with the help of above mentioned member, we go get it. Total cost? 165ish out the door!! Cheaper than a whole 'nother crank! It is sitting by the Bonnie, waiting for transplantation to commence.

Only caveat though...and some members already know this...it'* an L27. I can already here the L67 purists give a collective *gasp*, but after several discussions and brain storming sessions, I think it'* entirely doable. Other than the pistons and rods, there are no differences between the two, and so long as knock can be controlled, survivability shouldn't be a question...though I will not be able to push mad amounts of boost like some of y'all

Some of you are going to look at this and say "WTF?!?" I'm expecting that. But there is another point of view to consider too: at this point in time, it is getting to be pretty hard to find an S1 L67 in the junkyard that is in real good shape, and if one does come available, it usually goes to the Fiero crowd. Rebuilds get to be expensive, especially if alot of machining is involved, and if you do the entire rebuild yourself, you will still spend an above average amount of cash on rods, pistons, and rings. L27'*, on the other hand, can be found damn near anywhere, and finding one with lower miles on it is much easier as well. And so long as boost isn't turned up (and a more stringent maintanance schedule is performed), I think it will last every bit as long.

Comments...suggestions...flames...I want to hear them. Remember, I am not looking to make ultimate power with this setup...just looking for a viable replacement for the rare S1 L67'* when the time comes. Mods, if this needs to be moved to another forum, please do so.
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Old 10-02-2006, 03:42 PM   #2
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Nah, no flames from me, man, I'm just glad it'* mobile again! So, one thing you didn't mention, are you going to take the crank out of the L27 and use it in your L67, or are you doing a complete engine swap? Have you looked into swapping the crank out? It would seem to me like it would be entirely doable. Good luck with the swap either way!
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Old 10-02-2006, 03:53 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by petraman
Nah, no flames from me, man, I'm just glad it'* mobile again! So, one thing you didn't mention, are you going to take the crank out of the L27 and use it in your L67, or are you doing a complete engine swap? Have you looked into swapping the crank out? It would seem to me like it would be entirely doable. Good luck with the swap either way!
It'* an all-inclusive longblock swap. It ain't mobile yet, but I hope to get it under its own power in a few weeks. I would swap just the crank out, but closer inspection of my L67 rods showed 2 of them being complete trash (though the pistons themselves were fine)...spinning rod bearings does that y'know. I *thought* I could just get around that, but in doing so will significantly reduce the life of the rebuild. Doing it correctly starts to become cost prohibitive. I am not sweating the work I have already put into the L67 because most of the parts I bought for it will go onto the L27 assembly (lifters, knock sensor, all gaskets, oil pump, and other little stuff).

Besides, this L27 is cherry. No sludge in it all, and most of the factory markings are still readable. The only grease on this engine is road grime, so it is still tight as a drum. But it won't hurt to replace the gaskets I already had earmarked for the L67.
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Old 10-02-2006, 04:12 PM   #4
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Part of the cat in the bag here...

I got a call from Brad that he had found an L27 that seemed to be in mint condition... I believe it was the 3rd day that we met up and went to the yard.... We went checking out a few things and came back to the Buick Le Sabre.... He pointed it out... I checked it and was floored... The engine was soooo clean, I thought I was the only person that was Anal about the oil changes... This motor is pristine inside.... Brad took it a step further and popped of the rear valve cover( good thing to do when checking as this is usually the side that is worse ) And we found the engine to be clean enough to eat off of.. I was amazed to say the least... we got the motor on the lift and I just had to get a wrench and turn the crank buy hand... OH my the motor was nice and tight... Felt like a new motor.. I will be glad to see this motor go into the SSEi and get her running again...

Like Brad stated, the L27 was chosen due to the Fact that its been very hard to find an L67 Series I around here... Either very expensive or Dead... some of things we considered were the cranks between the 2 motors, But we know those are the same... The largest diffrence we could find between the L67 Rods and L27 Rods were the Bushings that were used with the floating Pin... The L27'* is pressed... As large as the L27 wrist pin is I don't think the motor will come apart even with moderate driving... and leaving the stock pully on there should keep it that way...

Brad I do still wish i had looked at that crank the first day you brought the car over here.. Its one monster paper weight... I do agree with you tho, it did and still does look like he wrapped his fingers around the Rod Journals...

We took Brads engine apart a couple of weeks ago, and it was interesting to see that with 175k I think it was the cylinder bores were in great shape... The rings looked to be a bit worn in certain areas.. But overall good for the milage...

Brad this is going to be interesting... And fun all at the same time.. And I am glad that you found that L27 when you did...

as for the Gaskets, he has a new set of all of the gaskets needed... so they will all be replaced... Heading in the right direction

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Old 10-02-2006, 04:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr's3800
Like Brad stated, the L27 was chosen due to the Fact that its been very hard to find an L67 Series I around here... Either very expensive or Dead...
I have run across a few S1 L67'*...however since these motors usually come in vehicles with digital odometers, verifying mileage is impossible. At least with L27'*, you *generally* will not run into that problem.

This will be VERY interesting indeed. The research done on the L27/67 piston-rod differences leads to this conclusion: The L67 pistons, by virtue of the floating bushing, are lower friction and probably is the reason why the L67'* last so long, forced induction and all. Even after 177k, the pistons we dug out not only looked good, the pivots shown very little, if any, wear. I imagine L27 P-R'* will not last near as long under high boost pressures, but if knock and boost are kept in check, they should hold up reasonably well.

One thing that was discussed during a recent mini-meet was this very topic here, and how to limit (or lessen) boost pressures that an L27 will find comfortable. While I am confident this new engine will take factory boost well, in the even that it doesn't, I can put a larger (yes, LARGER) pulley on the gen 2 M62 to lower my psi. Another option is to fully port/polish the intake and portmatch the cylinder heads. While this *should* increase power, the main objective here would be to lower psi stacking inside the chambers. Since going dual-knock sensor is out of the question (see knock sensor topic in P&B), a new knock sensor should do well enough, as a new sensor can better reject false-knock and pick up on real knock quicker than an older one. Another thing Don and I noticed was the ghastly amount of casting flash in the coolant passages in the cylinder heads...these create hotspots, and knock farms in the process. Those will be addressed Wednesday I hope (gotta remember to bring my Dremel kit), but Don has pics of those right now if anyone wants to see them.

All in all, this is going to be one helluva learning experience for everyone. If this pans out, I am hoping that this will give 92-95 L67 owners a sorely needed option when the Reaper decides to pay those motors a visit.
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Old 10-02-2006, 04:51 PM   #6
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I'm a little confused.

Brad mentions the longblock going in. Are you guys able to swap intake and SC only with a couple brackets?
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Old 10-02-2006, 06:43 PM   #7
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yup i knew about it, and that is where i got the basis for my L67 top end on a L27 bottom end....i talked to the cats in the bag
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Old 10-02-2006, 07:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBoost37
I'm a little confused.

Brad mentions the longblock going in. Are you guys able to swap intake and SC only with a couple brackets?
Yup. *Most* of the L67 is already out, save for the block itself and the crankshaft. All that needs to be done now is bolt the intake/sc, drive bracket and accessories, and the harness, and all the little things.
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Old 10-03-2006, 02:02 AM   #9
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This may seem like a dumb question, but are there any known issues with mating the L27 block to the HD tranny?
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Old 10-03-2006, 02:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
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This may seem like a dumb question, but are there any known issues with mating the L27 block to the HD tranny?
the L27 and the L67 are the EXACT same block
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