OK!!! Who Still Wants a Porche?? Or a BMW For That Matter.. - Page 3 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


General GM Chat When starting new posts, please specify YEAR, MAKE, MODEL, ENGINE type, and whatever modifications you have made. Chat about all things GM (and related cars). Off-topic stuff should be in the Lounge, and all Model specific mechanical problems should be posted in the proper forum.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-12-2002, 07:36 PM   #21
Senior Member
Posts like a Corvette
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Cali
Posts: 1,587
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
speedyguy is on a distinguished road
Default

I have been to Germany and driven the autobahn with a BMW and a golf too and yes they go faster on the autobahn but now due to recent growth of population there are some areas with speed limits. The size of Europe and the number of people forces the small car. Forced the fuel economy issue. That said they have their status boats. Audi (my grandfather loves his Audi and at 88 was still doing donuts in it.) Mercedes, jaguar... we are still the young bucking Wild West remember our 'local" history goes back only so far. The American car is supposed to be less refined actually the Dodge viper is a good example of a true American feel in a car. Everything rattles and the raw horsepower can barely be controlled. Excessive is American and like James dean with all heart and no stopping. That said the American car is forced to compare because even Americans get old and they want to be driving class. LOL GM and the other big American companies only change when they have too and only do so in a slow and bureaucratic way. I know for a fact that the American car could be built different but it is because they donít have to that they dont. Also original is not BMW; sorry the shape and form as like with the Porsche is still basiclly the same. In your face style and crazy wild new ideas are not the way of the BMW it is a yuppie carry over form the 80'*. Great car but "SAFEĒ. Safe never built the X games, safe never built anything original, safe is not what America is about. Different area different feel. If GM wanted too they could put out 600-1000 hp 3.8 l with as much ease as they put out 240hp units only smog and other sensibilityí*( the target group) born of corporate lawyers force the 240hp hand. The dodge viper could have had a v8 but why not drop a v10 in it because as we know bigger is better and America is about bigger. I also donít see America as only the us I include Canada in this view. So I understand the need for a BMW they are sensible and can perform circles around a stock gm product, but this product we are comparing was born from a different mentality and requires the ingenuity of the American dreamer to go further. Much like the Jeep or Harley. Let me tell you the BMW bike is much better built than the Harley but BUT the Harley has flavor and American feel and Germans prefer to spend twice as much money on a crappy Harley than buy a safe boring BMW. Sorry but that is how I feel it is the feel that is important to me. Mercedes also makes something we like to call the G wagon ( looks a lot like the Suzuki Samurai) a awesome 4X4 that runs circles around a hummer or jeep but guess what people buy. Guess why. Same reason "feel" anything can be done after but the feel has to be just right or its not worth it. I guess the Bonneville of the older day warrants this angle more than the newer 86-99 but still the basics apply to describe my personal feeling about what I consider to be boring and why. Once again BMW is an awesome car just not my cup of tea. lol remember VHS and Beta.?? Remember Apple and the IBM clone?? The crappy clone wins! The lesser VHS wins! Sorry ití* just the way it is.

Ty
speedyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2002, 01:42 AM   #22
Junior Member
Posts like a V-Tak
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brookfield, WI
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
sachin528 is on a distinguished road
Default

This is getting slightly off topic, but....
IMO, most imports are not designed by bean counters. GM is such a fine example of being run by bean counters. Things have improved but not changed. I have driven newer Bonnevilles (working at dealers,etc). The fact is the plastic creaks, it is not of very good quality, workmanship leaves much to be desired. So age is not a factor. Even with age, I have driven 93 Toyotas and Hondas/Acuras. Those things do not rattle, or squeak. (I'm referring to the dash panel assemblies) In 2000, I drove a 92 Lexus LS400 with 75,000 mi. Not one single creak, groan. Panels lined up perfectly. Interior was so silent you couldn't tell if the engine was on (fine for luxury, not for sport - I am trying to indicate the smoothness). My Bonneville all the panel make noises and stuff going over bumps and stuff. Now before another member gets upset with this point, please let me point out that for a number of years, GM had Toyota build a version of it'* Corolla for them (remember the Prizm). The prizm was a rock solid car under $20,000. As I said I worked at a dealer and a 93 Prizm would not make nearly as much noise as the Cavalier/Sunfire. Neither does an Integra, Legend, Accord, or Camry.
Second I can't respect any car company that authorizes and builds a monstrosity like the Aztec. Not only did they build a car uglier than the Gremlin, they put it in the Sporty Division. The fact that it is only offered with the 3.4L is also sad. The potential of the 3.8 is there. It could easily put out 230-250hp. N/A. and 300 */C. They make do with adequecy. Along the lines of the Sporty Division, why are there no high performance coupes. Just the Sunfire, and the Grand Am. Why do they make the sports cars with automatics, and then offer a no charge manual - stick, along with RWD has been way more sporty since forever.
Third, it has taken GM 10 years to realize the potential of the performance compact car market. And with their offerings (J-bodies) I wouldn't take them serious - the interior is soooooo cheap. The engine offerings do not even begin to speak of performance.

Now with just my experience with my Bonneville, I can't afford to risk getting another Domestic - I paid around $15,000 for mine in '94 but I have sunk 7,500 (at least) in REPAIRS not maintenance - add in routine maintenance and I am looking at 10,500. And I haven't even hit 100k mi.

Sorry my money is with the imports (well c ertain imports. Some are just as bad as domestics)

PLease remember that this is based on my experience and is my OPINION. (your'* will be different.)

Thanks.
sachin528 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2002, 02:19 AM   #23
Senior Member
Posts like a Corvette
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Cali
Posts: 1,587
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
speedyguy is on a distinguished road
Default

Your on when it comes to fit and finish. All Gm cars are like this. Actually my only domestic experience that was without squeaks was with Ford. Nice interior. Personally though I find the new Ford v10'* sad, but once again the feel inside is nice. Chevy has a good structure much tougher than any import, but unless you go to the top there are still some squeaks. That said Pontiac has done a very bad job on the Pontiac Bonneville. That said all my (1995) squeaks were fixed easy. I also fixed alot of my other problems. If I bought a new Bonneville and had any problems the dealer would fix the car or I would personally return the car and return with a Ford to make my point. LOL But I have had many fun new cars and prefer the used project to a new car. I prefer slightly used bikes too a year old properly broken in bike is alot more fun than waiting to break in a bike. New imports are a great deal for the money, but if I couldnít get a Bonneville I would buy a new Le Sabre or 1996 Chevy SS.

Ty
speedyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2002, 04:54 PM   #24
Senior Member
Posts like a Corvette
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Cali
Posts: 1,587
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
speedyguy is on a distinguished road
Default

I saw the new BMW interior and it is very very nice. I understand but alas still I would buy a Bonneville over a BMW. I canít wait for a RWD Bonneville.

Ty
speedyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Be Still my heart: Shes back! 500HP BMW M6 Jim W Your Other Rides: Pics & Videos 19 12-13-2005 01:51 PM
It was only a matter of time Anything4APontiac Introductions for new members 1 07-10-2004 09:23 AM
Does the gap really matter? bambam 1992-1999 9 09-05-2003 08:33 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:36 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.