OK!!! Who Still Wants a Porche?? Or a BMW For That Matter.. - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


General GM Chat When starting new posts, please specify YEAR, MAKE, MODEL, ENGINE type, and whatever modifications you have made. Chat about all things GM (and related cars). Off-topic stuff should be in the Lounge, and all Model specific mechanical problems should be posted in the proper forum.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-11-2002, 12:44 PM   #1
Senior Member
Posts like a Corvette
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,253
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Tamara is on a distinguished road
Default OK!!! Who Still Wants a Porche?? Or a BMW For That Matter..


This fellow hit a pickup truck at 65mph, and was in critical condition for a while. He is alive and well now though. The pickup driver had some scratches. (this is the porche)

AND...

there was no storty with this car other than it hit a pole while trying to race someone...no mention of the driver or passengers. Hopefully they are well.



There are some Bonneville ones too...I think i will post those in another message.
Tamara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2002, 01:14 PM   #2
Senior Member
Posts like a Corvette
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Cali
Posts: 1,587
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
speedyguy is on a distinguished road
Default

Remember these are pictures of cars that have been opened up with the jaws of life. If you want to see real carnage look on the autobahn. I spent quite some time in Germany and saw some of the best Mercedes and Volvo smeared on the road. Bonneville are great in a crash but personally it is not safety that draws me to a car. That said the Bonneville is more likely safer than an “old” Porsche or BMW. Not sure about newer sport cars.

Ty
speedyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2002, 01:29 PM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
SSEi95 is on a distinguished road
Default

Jaws or no Jaws, that Porche was torn apart like a piece of tin foil! Was that the block on the right side of the pic?

Wouldn't want to be the passenger in the BMW! This picture is a very good reason why street racing is bad, especially if you got no idea what your doing. Not saying I have never done it though.
SSEi95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2002, 01:51 PM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Teuobk is on a distinguished road
Default

Porsches are quite safe, as are Bimmers. If I had the money, my ideal stable would include a 996 Turbo and an M5.

Are those photos from that "wrecked exotics" site?

BTW- Personal pet peeve time. Porsche (with an *) is pronounced with two syllables, like "pore-sha."
Teuobk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2002, 03:39 PM   #5
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 334
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
CDecker is on a distinguished road
Default

German Engineering is some of the best in the world, in both safety and performance. Not trying to put down our cars or anything, but I would rather be in a BMW during a serious crash over a Bonneville anyday. Even a Porsche, Mercedes, Etc..

When it comes to cars, Europe has got their **** together, no question about it. Their technology is far more advanced than ours. We are implementing things into our cars now that they have been using for YEARS, including safety. Anyways, as you can tell I am very biased when it comes to this, and feel very strongly. If I couldve afforded a BMW or Mercedes at the time I bought my Bonneville, I woulda bought one without question. Not to mention the fact that you can compare any modern day European engine from a Beamer or Benz and it makes the 3800 and LS1 american motors look like a joke.

Just my $.02
CDecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2002, 04:06 PM   #6
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,936
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
sse1990 is on a distinguished road
Default

I'd still buy a BMW, probably not try to drive through poles with it but I would still buy one.
sse1990 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2002, 04:49 PM   #7
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 1,838
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
95BonnevilleSESC is on a distinguished road
Default

My last car was a Volkwagen (1990). It is German engineering through and through, but it had a crash rating of 2/1 (which is the worst) where as my Bonneville has a crash rating of 5/4 (5 being for driver and 4 being for passenger). The scale is from 1 to 5, 1 being 50% chance of being seriously injured in accident and 5 being about a 10% chance of serious injury in like accidents. It really depends on the size of the car and particularly the rigidity of the cabin and the ability of the crumple zones to absorb the impact. A small Porsche or BMW may be safer than other small cars, but they are still no match for a Bonneville. Look at some of the recent accident postings where the Bonneville was involved with larger vehicles (Avalanche, etc.). The larger the vehicle, the better the protection (as a general rule).

Instead of concerning ourselves with whether our cars will protect us in a serious accident, why don't we concern ourselves with NOT GETTING INTO ACCIDENTS AT ALL!

But then, that'* why they are called accidents in stead of "on-purposes".
95BonnevilleSESC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2002, 04:57 PM   #8
Senior Member
Posts like a Corvette
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Cali
Posts: 1,587
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
speedyguy is on a distinguished road
Default

Poles are not so bad if your driving a ZR2 Chevy blazer LOL eats them right up. but poles are known to eat 4 runners and the like. I prefer the hot rod look to most cars but the lambo or old Porsche are nice. The 928 have some great body kits. The reason for the Bonneville for me is more of an artistic passion than anything else. The shape is begging to be molded like so many other nice smooth American hotrods. Big rims 18’* or 20s with shaved handles $uicide doors frenched antenna heat extractor hood, smooth. Now add that old iron pushrod sound with a wump wump wump and you have a car worth owning. As the 4X4 crowd says anyone can buy a truck but a real 4X4 is built. I feel the same about the Bonneville. So crash safety is important but I would rather die in a 4-500hp Bonneville than a boring old BMW. Nice car but boring. I have driven many times on the autobahn in a BMW and it is a great and fast car, but still no original feel. The older BMW’* are very artistically pleasing compared to the new ones. I love the look of the new Audi’* too. Nice style. The speedster Porsche is my favorite of the Porsche. Look into the old Fiero on Archie’* site and the chop top Fiero’* with 450hp is a great example of the potential of the American plastic car.

Ok I stopped.

Ty
speedyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2002, 11:05 AM   #9
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 334
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
CDecker is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
rather die in a 4-500hp Bonneville than a boring old BMW. Nice car but boring.
Ummm, sorry but I cant agree with you at all there. Maybe its just personal preference and difference of opinion, but driving a BMW is everything in the book EXCEPT boring. Take a M3 out for a spin, and then come back and tell me a Bonneville is more fun. No original Feel?? They have a 3.2L, Natrually-Aspirated Engine Producing 333 Horsepower, STOCK. Domestic car manufacturers would kill for that technology (which is most likely why they are all merging up, to avoid the import car market from completely wiping them out), but thats another discussion.

Ok, ok, so lets comapre GM'* top of the line V6, our beloved 3.8L Series II SUPERCHARGED L67, which produces an *amazing* 240 horsepower. Wanna compare apples to apples, then you shouldnt use the L67, you'd be using a Natrually Aspirated 3800 producing *wow* 205 horses is it?? Ok, maybe its higher now, maybe 220??

Ok, I know what your thinking, for the price difference between the 2 cars, do some mods to your SSEi or GTP'* L67. Pulley, Exhaust, CAI (All voiding your warranty in these areas while the BMW is still stock, fully protected), and MAYBE when your done you'll have a 300+ Horsepower Bonneville or Grand Prix. You cant however use any of this power because your afraid you'll tear your 4T65E-HD into shreds, which you will. If you dont believe me let me know and I can post TONS of links from the clubgp board of people doing just that.

Ok, ok, so still within the price difference of the 2 cars, swap the tranny then, and spend even more time and money into something you'll never get back out of it (BMW still stock and under warranty). Even so, Scott Cook has gone through how many Transmission'* now with his 450 hp bonneville? 8?

Quote:
Big rims 18’* or 20s
Last time I checked, the X5 came with 20'*, STOCK!! Lemme see... Yep!

"20 x 9.5 front/20 x 10.5 rear Star Spoke cast-alloy wheels, and 275/40R-20 front, 315/35R-20 rear performance tires2"

http://www.bmwusa.com/site_layout/mo..._equipment.htm

Does GM have anything with 20'* ? Ummm.. Not to my knowledge...
I dont think anyone Domestic does, but please prove me wrong.

Quote:
My last car was a Volkwagen (1990). It is German engineering through and through, but it had a crash rating of 2/1 (which is the worst) where as my Bonneville has a crash rating of 5/4 (5 being for driver and 4 being for passenger).
Umm, lets compare apples to apples once again please. Not a '90 VW to a '95 Bonneville.

(Found this on the web, have the link if anyone wants, just search NHTSA)

Real-world death rates by vehicle
Insurance Institute for Highway Safety study (covers 1990-1994 vehicles)

SAFEST VEHICLES 1990-1994
Volvo 240
Saab 9000
Mercedes-Benz 190 D/E
Volkswagen Passat
Lexus ES 300
Lexus LS 400
Honda Accord
Jeep Grand Cherokee 4X4
Dodge Caravan
Plymouth Voyager

WORST VEHICLES 1990-1994
Geo Tracker
Chevrolet Corvette
Isuzu Amigo
Hyundai Scoupe
Ford Mustang
Ford Festiva
Pontiac Lemans
Geo Metro
Ford Escort
Chevrolet S10 pickup

Funny how almost all the best are imports, and all the worst are domestic. :( :(

Ok, lets move up a few years to 1997:

Which vehicles score best?
J.D. Power and Associates: Initial quality survey, 3 months - 1997 list

Compact: Saturn SL, Toyota Tercel (tie)
Entry midsize: Nissan Altima
Premium midsize: Honda Accord
Sporty: Acura Integra
Entry luxury: Infiniti I30
Premium luxury: Lexus LS400
Compact pickup: Toyota Tacoma
Minivan: Honda Odyssey
Midsize sport utility: Infiniti QX4
Full-size sport utility: Lexus LX450
Full-size pickup: Ford F-series

Thats Funny, I see ONE Domestic vehicle, a pickup truck.
To bad this report came out before the New Tundras were introduced in the late 90'*, because it took over that spot.

Alright, I'm done. I'm not trying to be a complete ******* by making this post. I love my car, and love talking with other Bonneville owners in this forum, as some are good friends, but anyone whos been in the automotive industry for any given period of time will tell you exactly as I have. They invent it, we steal it 5-years later. ABS and Airbags are a good start, but old news to comapre. Most Domestic cars are now just implementing side air bags though, which are a great beneift in a crash. To bad VW'* had them in the Passat since '98. HID Headlights? Europes had them for years, a clearly awesome automotive breakthrough, however I have yet to see a US car with them (even Japans adapted, they are stock on most new Acura CL, TL and RL models). Give GM and ford a few years, they'll catch up. How about some convienience and performance features? I *think* you can get heated seats in the 2000+ Bonnevilles stock, as well as other 2000+ GM vehicles. To bad my moms old 1986 7 series Volvo had them, 14 years earlier. How about trigger Finger shifting found in the new BMW'* (M3), which lets you shift using buttons / paddles on the steering wheel. Tested time and time again against typical 5-6 speed manual transmission equipped cars with some of Europes best drivers, and even souped up automatics shifting precisely as they can get, it still cant be beat. Another technological breakthrough. Give GM and Chrysler 5-6 Years and I bet you'll see this in the 2008 Vette and Viper. On a side note isnt it funny how a stock 6-Cylinder boring BMW can give one of Americas finest Muscle cars, the Corvette with its LS1 V8 a serious run for its money, in some cases (equipped with the new formula shifting buttons) beating it? hmm.

The next big thing?? Mark my Words... All-Wheel Drive. Europes been doing it for years, and its catching on fast. Virtually the whole import market is jumpin on. Subaru'* been doing it since god knows when. Volvo and Saab both affer AWD cars, as well as BMW (330ci I think) and Mercedes. Porsche? Why yes, the Carrera 4. The list goes on and on. Domestic? Well, Pontiac is sadly trying with the Assteck and maybe even the vibe?? But failing and not even coming close to the level of AWD their foreign competitors provide. Chrysler even tried to hype up their new "viscious coupler design, allowing the transmission and differentials to put power to the wheels with traction opposed to those without like normal 4WD" back in '99 with the introduction of their new re-designed Grand Cherokee. To bad Subaru has been doing this since before I was born, they just borrowed the technology and changed it a bit so it wasnt *quite* enough the same to get a lawsuit. Its the American way.

Alright, I'm done. I'm sure you get my point....
CDecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2002, 11:59 AM   #10
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Torrington, CT
Posts: 267
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
csprague is on a distinguished road
Default

Ok Terminator, I need to give you some up-to-date information...

J.D. Power Initial Quality Study 2002:

http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national...ity_index.tmpl

Looks like GM and Toyota pretty much wrapped it up. Our vaunted Bonneville'* get third in their category (with its cousin the LeSabre getting first).


Please don't take this as an addition to the domestic vs. import flame war. I love Bimmers myself (hope to own an M5 by the time I'm 30 - good incentive to get that engineering degree) but GM'* lineup has some very good vehicles in their own right.
csprague is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Be Still my heart: Shes back! 500HP BMW M6 Jim W Your Other Rides: Pics & Videos 19 12-13-2005 01:51 PM
It was only a matter of time Anything4APontiac Introductions for new members 1 07-10-2004 09:23 AM
Does the gap really matter? bambam 1992-1999 9 09-05-2003 08:33 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:54 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.