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Old 06-26-2006, 12:44 PM   #131
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Ok question Will, What information are you looking at when you are tuning for water injection KR, STFT, LFTF, o2 readings?. How do you determine what readings are best. (I am weak in the tuning department)


(Note: Sorry 2000SilverBullet for high jacking the thread If You or will want I will start a new thread)
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Old 06-26-2006, 07:18 PM   #132
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It'* all on the same topic.

In my case, I don't have a variable delivery system like Greyhare and the Bullet. So I have to tune first by injector nozzle size to deliver just a little too much water at about 3000rpms (determined by slight stumbling from 'quenching'). Then I add methanol to replace water (methanol is a fuel) in order to come to the right mix.

At that point, I'm looking at KR primarily, secondarily STFT, as the methanol adds to the fuel mix. In this manner (helped by a 4bar adjustable fuel pressure regulator) I'm able to run stock 29lb injectors without running out of headroom. A 29lb injector will actually deliver more fuel than advertised at higher fuel pressures, preventing the need to go with a larger injector and dork with PCM programming.

For instance, 29lb Series 1 L67 injectors flow 305 cc/min at 43.5 psi (3bar stock regulator).

By simply increasing that pressure to 3.5 bar (50psi), you effectively increase the ability of the injectors, making them (effectively) 31lb injectors flowing 327cc/min.

The increased pressure also has the effect of more efficient atomization of the fuel (up to a point, in most cases).

Again, the methanol prevents the need to run the fuel pressure up that high (my upper limit with this regulator is 4bar or 58psi netting me an effective flow of 33lb or 351cc/min), as the methanol provides additional fueling the injectors don't have to make up for.

I'll run a simpler setup for this reason at the track. I'll obviously need more fueling to keep up with the 2.0" pulley when I put it on for the track, but that'* when I run the water/methanol injection. So I'll tune the methanol % in the water to achieve the same STFT value that I had with no injection and a 2.2" pulley. It makes track setups a no-brainer.
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Old 06-26-2006, 11:33 PM   #133
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Bill is right on the money with his explanation.
That was the key to my Bonne being the quickest last year even when running against similarly modded cars using slicks. Richen up the mixture with the adjustable fuel pressure regulator. I have been running the stock 36 lb injectors at 6 psi higher than stock to equivalate to 43 lb units.

The Snow kit for 96+ GM will work for any OBD2 GM car. It gets its voltage signal by connecting one wire directly to the MAF sensor output. It then regulates off the frequency of the MAF by converting to a voltage. There are 4 different ramp rates you can choose from using dip switches based on the specific MAF sensor voltage. There are two dials that control start and max voltage to control the range.

It is expensive and it doesn't take long to use up half a gallon.

Maybe if I had to do it again, I would install an intercooler.......but this is fun for now.

Oh, I almost forget another cool side benefit. After letting off the gas pedal when using the injection and then gearing down so the engine is under compression braking....the extra rich fuel mixtures blows flames out the tail pipes.
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Old 06-26-2006, 11:53 PM   #134
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Paul, I think we overloaded them.
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Old 06-27-2006, 12:15 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Paul, I think we overloaded them.
Not overloaded just trying to absorb all this information. Give me a few to process before my next question.

Quote:
Maybe if I had to do it again, I would install an intercooler.......but this is fun for now.
Remeber no intercooler for my year.

Quote:
It is expensive and it doesn't take long to use up half a gallon.
I have seen Bigger tanks which I will be imploying in my system once all the research is done.
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Old 06-27-2006, 05:28 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000SilverBullet
Oh, I almost forget another cool side benefit. After letting off the gas pedal when using the injection and then gearing down so the engine is under compression braking....the extra rich fuel mixtures blows flames out the tail pipes.
Ok, NOW I'm sold on it!
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Old 06-27-2006, 07:08 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadow427
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000SilverBullet
Oh, I almost forget another cool side benefit. After letting off the gas pedal when using the injection and then gearing down so the engine is under compression braking....the extra rich fuel mixtures blows flames out the tail pipes.
Ok, NOW I'm sold on it!
That'* from the adjustable FPR, not from the water/methanol injection.
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Old 06-28-2006, 01:43 AM   #138
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The extra fuel pressure might contribute to it but it doesn't do it if the Meth injection is not running. Maybe because there is so much Meth being injected.
I can hardly wait to run some of that Rocket 104 race fuel.
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Old 06-28-2006, 01:53 AM   #139
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Paul, if that'* the case, drop your Meth percentage. The water gives you better cooling anyway.

It'* funny, in this 100 weather, I have no quenching at 2500 rpm'*. I too, may drop the methanol percentage if the adjustable FPR can keep my fuel trims up.

I may not even have to boost my octane at Woodburn. We'll see what I learn with the 2" pulley. As it stands now, in this heat the Water Injection keeps my KR at zero with the 2.2" pulley running at 12-13 psi. If I do boost my octane for Woodburn, it'll be because I advance my timing a tad, and even then I'm thinking about a 95 octane mix.
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Old 07-03-2006, 08:16 PM   #140
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Ok now that my brain has rebooted.

Where can you purchase the methanol to create the mix?
You think 2 gallons is over kill?
I want to put the injection gauge in the cabin do you forsee an issues on this. (oh and the masking tape idea is out of the question.)

All help is greatly appreciated.
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