Tried out the nitrous... - Page 3 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 03-08-2005, 03:34 PM   #21
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I guess I'm going into uncharted territory here. I think I'm just gonna go with a custom chip for a no-nitrous application and get a spark retard box for when I want to spray and I'll have the best of both worlds then, since I can't get a flip chip. Thanks for the help.
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Old 03-08-2005, 04:25 PM   #22
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Err....I can't see that being much help though. I got some bunk plugs a bit back and actually witnessed 15* of KR and still didn't actually HEAR it (window down too). If you're hearing it you've obviously surpassed that. If each degree is worth, say, 1.5hp you're already losing 22.5hp negating much of the mere 35 shot you're injecting. But obvioiusly you'd have to retard the timing more than 15* anyway, so you may end up diving into negative territory.

I don't think this is a timing issue, I think you have something else going on there you need to figure out. I ran my DRY 55shot completely stock and never had an issue. I can't recall if I ever used it after getting my Jet chip but since I had both well before my rebuild I wouldn't doubt it. Point is that 35 shot should not be any issue.

Have you checked out your MAF yet? Cleaned it? Thats the only thing I can really think of. I thought about the 2.1" pulley but the nitrous would act like a mild intercooler, so I can't see it being a real heat issue. Is there a way to flip it to a dry shot? Tried that?

The fact that the car is not running right even after you disengage the nitrous means to me there'* obviously something outside the nitrous going on.
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Old 03-08-2005, 05:35 PM   #23
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Right, but the chip will give me more fuel in higher RPM which I'll need anyway and some timing advance. I'll get it running right before I get it tuned.. as much as i can. And yes, I can run the nitrous dry if I disconnect the fuel solenoid, but will I need an adjustable FPR? What else did you use when you ran your dry kit? Mine only consists of some solenoids, lines, jets, nozzle, and a bottle.
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Old 03-08-2005, 06:47 PM   #24
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Well it comes with a Nitrous Management Unit which is probably little more than a vacuum sensor and something to vary vacuum to the FPR to slightly increase fuel delivery, lines, a switch, and a bottle....thats it. I installed the whole thing in about 30min, on a rainy night, inside a self-wash carwash. It wasen't until about a week later that I closed the plug gap a little.

Even with that I never had any issues with it. I didn't have a scantool to verify but I never heard any knock, never reduced the cars power, I will say it didn't always work at 100% (some runs felt MUCH more powerful than others) but I never got negative performance from it.

You really shouldn't be shot-gun fixing this (throwing parts at it till it works). You should really sit down and think about what could possibly be going wrong. The chip to add more high-end fuel, thats something you really can't do without an air/fuel meter and/or a dyno. At LEAST a scantool to watch your o2mv at WOT. BTW, the car automatically decides WOT fuel delivery based on part throttle self-tuning. To change that would mean either you did more than the PCM can compensate for, or you think you've outsmarted GM.

Its your car and I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just suggesting you test everything between the nitrous nozzle and the piston before either giving up or throwing parts at it.
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Old 03-08-2005, 09:02 PM   #25
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Thanks for the info and tips, but I'm getting the custom burned chip for when it is in fact running correctly. I'm not throwing parts at it... yet. I'm not driving the car anywhere right now, I have other means of transportation. But while it'* down, I pulled all of the plugs, I noticed that one plug wire has two gouges in it, so I'm replacing the set too. I'd like the take the MAF off my LT1 Trans Am and try that on the bonneville and see if that corrects the problem, but I'll likely run into problems there because I don't have anything to calibrate it with. What I really need is someone nearby who could loan me a MAF to test on my car and see if it fixes anything. I understand what you're saying about the PCM adding fuel at WOT, but with running such a small pulley I wouldn't think the computer would be able to compensate as much as needed, which is why I'm going custom. If you've ever seen the dyno charts on a pullied 03-04 cobra before and after a tune, you'll see why I'm trying to get one also. Some things aren't within reach of the stock tuning.

BTW, I appreciate all your help in getting this figured out. Should we continue this discussion in PM? Or rather leave it in case someone else runs into these problems.
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Old 03-08-2005, 09:51 PM   #26
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Ahh we can continue it here if you don't mind, that way others can chime in as necessary.

You're right about custom tuning, and any engine can benefit from a custom tune, but you can't do it with a blind eye. As far as fuel, as long as you're not maxing out your MAF sensor the PCM is compensating. I have actually heard of people getting gains by cutting back the WOT fueling a little. But there is no way to tell if you're gaining or losing unless you get on a dyno with an a/f meter. Engines can surprise you and what works for one might not work for another, especially since you're not even using another 1992 Bonneville SSE as a comparison. Even small things like how much carbon buildup you have and where it is, what kind of fuel you use (what additives they use), and other little things will affect the outcome. People like JET use a common tune known for a range of gains for X car. But even they won't guarentee ANY gains at all, they'll give estimates on what they've seen and even those are usually like "7-12hp" instead of an exact. And chances are they used a dyno to verify.

Spend the money, get it on a dyno, find out what your fuel and spark is doing, and go from there. On the other end you can splurge on a scantool and read your o2mv. It won't be as exact but if you see 1000mv at WOT you know its too rich, if you see 700mv you know its too lean. But unless you find out exactly whats going on its probably 60-40 chances you're going to end up with less performance.

JMO though
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Old 03-08-2005, 10:14 PM   #27
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Yeah, you're right. The tuner asked for scantool data when I requested the burn, but I don't have any to give him. I doubt Autozone or any place like that rents them like they do the codereaders, do they? While we're along those lines, I thought I might mention that I've tuned my Trans Am the same way. PCMforless.com specializes in GM vehicle tuning with a lot of positive results with simple mail-order tunes. I load mine myself with a data cable and I also have a freeware program to monitor a lot of things the engine is doing. Only problem is, I can't find anytype of freeware program for a Series I L67. I've tried EFIlive'* Series I L67 tables, but I don't get a signal back to the laptop after I start the car. Incorrect cable? who knows. I'm going to take your advice though and hold off on the chip until I either have scantool data, or can get a dyno-tune.
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Old 03-12-2005, 06:45 PM   #28
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I can confirm getting a gain from leaning out the upper end. What RPM did you inject the nitrous at. Short ground strap spark plugs are usually reccomended for nitrous and in certain cases, you may get detonation without them.
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Old 03-13-2005, 06:23 PM   #29
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I figured out the problem.. When I was tightening down the fuel line onto the fuel pressure test port, I overtightened it and cracked the fuel rail. So I guess that explains why I lost my highend, I wasn't getting enough fuel, it was probably spraying all over the rear valve cover. Thanks for the troubleshooting help though. When I get the a new rail on and retest it all out, I'll keep everyone up on how it works.
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Old 03-13-2005, 06:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1994ta
I figured out the problem.. When I was tightening down the fuel line onto the fuel pressure test port, I overtightened it and cracked the fuel rail.
Wow, I would have NEVER guessed that one.

Good thing it didn't start a fire!
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