Guages Not working and its Not a corrosion problem...... - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 08-14-2005, 01:08 AM   #1
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Default Guages Not working and its Not a corrosion problem......

Tonight I pulled the Insturment cluster out of my 92 SSEi. I thought I had the same problem that everyone else has with corrosion but that was not the case.

I followed the procedure that is outlined in the "Tech Know-How" section of this site but most of the cluster is still not working. I even scraped all the pins with a knife until they were nice and shiny and I used contact cleaner on them as well. I checked the circut boards for burns or breaks and didn't see any and tested the gauges indivdually with the continuity setting on the DMM to see if the gauges still worked (They did).
After reassembling and reinstalling only the Tach and Speedo work (Same as before). The rest use to cut in and out from time to time, currently I have None of the following working (They haven't worked for a long time); Compass, DIC, Gas, Oil, Temp & Boost.

Anyone have a pin out for the plugs on the back of the cluster and if possible what the different wires show for voltage and when ?

Anyone have any idea what controls these non functioning gauges....ECM, PCM, BCM ??

Any ideas on what could be causing this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in Advance,
Dutch
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Old 08-14-2005, 10:24 AM   #2
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Default Re: Guages Not working and its Not a corrosion problem......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch2005
Tonight I pulled the Insturment cluster out of my 92 SSEi. I thought I had the same problem that everyone else has with corrosion but that was not the case.
Since I've been a member of this forum, I can not recall one cluster problem that was cured by simply cleaning the electrical contacts. Personally, I don't think that corroded contacts is as widespread of a problem as it'* made out to be. I do however think that the U2F and U50 clusters have a common electrical problem.

I've had 4 different clusters in my 93. The original was very similar to yours as the boost, oil and temp gauges would all fail at the same time and the compass and DIC would appear intermittently. The second unit was from a junkyard and had a reman sticker on the back. This one worked better but the temp gauge needle "floated" around and was not accurate at all. The third one was given to me by BillBoost37 without the board that drives the three gauges. I removed this board from both of the previous clusters and the failure characteristics followed into the 3rd cluster in each case. Next, I tried the cluster from the 97 donor car. All of the gauges worked properly except for the fuel gauge which is controled by a PWM signal from the PCM rather than a variable resistance directly from the sender.

I took a gamble and removed the 3 gauge board from the 97 cluster and installed it in cluster #3. Finally, everything worked as it should. I did have to change the oil pressure sender. It tested bad while I was troubleshooting this fiasco.

It took more than a year and 4 different clusters to correct my problem. Either I'm one unlycky bastard or the older clusters have electrical problems.
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Old 08-14-2005, 12:58 PM   #3
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I've fixed intermittent corrosion problems on 2 bonnevilles at that connector. It'* a good place to start (my 93 was like this when I bought it, and is fine to this day now).

Some wreckers will test clusters before they go into inventory for sale, and some will give you a 30 day warranty. I'd try that first if cleaning contacts doesn't work.
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Old 08-14-2005, 11:55 PM   #4
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Could my problem possibly be a bad ground in the drivers kick panel or else were ?
Could it be a bad PCM or something like that ?
Just for clairification when the DIC, Compass, Fuel, Oil, Temp & Boost cut out they all cut out at the same time & they all start working at the same time, almost like someone fliping a switch on and off.
Its funny this morning I went to grab a coffee and when I started the car everything was working, (after 10 or so minutes everything cut out). This is the first time in months that all the gauges have worked.
I think I am going to look into having our sister company take a look at my cluster. I work for a big international parent company that owns about 200 smaller companies, one of which is a company called Technicentre out of Montreal and they repair GM dashes & radios.
Do you guys think this is a good route if I can't find a loose connection or something else wrong ?

Thanks,
Dutch
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Old 08-15-2005, 12:16 AM   #5
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I'm not much of a betting man but if I were, I'd put my money on NO for a ground problem. In my experience, a faulty ground (like one on the fenders in the engine compartment or in the passenger'* kick panel) would make many more electrical problems. The easy way to tell though is to grab a multimeter and check the resistance between the grounds in the cluster connectors and battery ground. There should be very little to 0 resistance betleen them.

My theory is a power supply problem in the circuit boards within the cluster. Although I do not have schematics of the boards, I do not believe that the gauges themselves operate at 12 volts. Keep in mind this is just my opinion as I haven't tested down to the board level but could explain the readon why several of the cluster components fail at the same time.

there was also a dude on Ebay that offered a repair service for these clusters. One of the the items listed on his repair procedures was to replace the power supply board(*). Unfortunately, I can no longer find the Ebay auction.
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Old 08-15-2005, 10:07 AM   #6
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This is amazing. Dutch. Friday I got home to a cluster I bought from a previous member close to 2 months ago. Interestingly enough it is a Canadian cluster. I think around a 95 year. It'* supposed to work 100%.

We could check it out this weekend if you are interested.
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:37 AM   #7
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Sorry about taking so long to respond.
Thanks for the offer Bill. How much do you want for this cluster you have ?
Email me at [email protected]

I called our sister company (Technicentre) I was telling you guys about and found out some pricing for repair. They told me I can get it repaired for store cost (whoesale), which should be around $100 for labour + any parts (Canadian$ OR about $70-80 US$).
Here is the website if anyone else is interested: http://www.technicentreplus.com/eng/index.htm

To me its worth it cause its a real pain not being able to tell how much gas I have.

What do you guys think about getting this repaired ?

I figure if I'm able to find one at a wrecker they will charge me around $100 & right now Bonne'* are in short supply up here (I already called around and they have all crushed up the Bonne'* they had)

Bill I think I might buy that cluster off of you just in case.

Thanks again,
Dutch
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:02 PM   #8
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Hi all -
I've got the same problem with my '93 SSE. It started about 3 weeks ago with a "reset" of the gauges and DIC while driving home from work. Over the next couple of days it got worse and to the point where none of the gauges worked for days at a time. I thought at first it might be a problem in the ignition switch and/or wiring because for a while I felt that if I turned the key slowly from "on" to "start" the gauges seemed to work more often. However, I think this isn't the case because it'* hit or miss. I do feel that the problem seems to be heat related. Its been real hot this summer, and when it cools down it seems more likely to work....

Last Saturday, I followed the techinfo article and removed the cluster (btw, the instructions were great, got the cluster out in about an hour and back in less than 1/2 that AND nothing broken). I took every thing apart, took a look at pins and kind of looked at solder joints. Put it all back together, back in the car and it worked great.... for 3 days!!! What a bummer!! Its off and on again, luckily more on than off (but its been cooler here this week). I'm now in the process of looking for a replacement cluster I may be able to salvage for parts and perhaps start a schematic of the cluster.

I have some questions though.....
1. Does anyone have a schematic of the cluster, or tried to "reverse-engineer" the cluster by following traces and cross referencing ICs?
2. What "pins" or "connectors" need to be cleaned up and what is the best way to do it??
3. Where is the odometer value stored??? Is it in the cluster or on board computer??
4. Does the "low fuel" signal to the HUD work if the cluster gas gauge is out???? My son drives this car alot at night and I always wonder how much gas is in it the next morning. I've been hoping that the HUD display will tell me if I'm low.

Thanks in advance for all your help... I was also able to fix the radio controls in the steering wheel last Saturday. That was one success!!
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Old 08-18-2005, 12:48 AM   #9
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Mark..

No one has a schematic to our knowledge.
The odo info is stored in the cluster. I believe the main pcb board.
Don't know about the fuel...probably does. show w/o cluster on hud.
Pins and connectors..I haven't seen anything yet..the other Bill can give us a better idea.
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Old 08-25-2005, 04:46 AM   #10
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Default 93 SSE: Digital Compass & the Drivers Info Center blinks

I'm having the same problems w/ my '93 SSE. A Month ago the gauges starting going haywire & the "Digital Compass" & the "Drivers Info Center" blinks on & off. The lil' chimes are driving me nuts.
Anyone know how to disconnect the Chimes??
My 3rd brake warning light has been coming on & off for about 6 months, the light is ok tho.
I took it to the Pontiac Dealer & they said it would cost $600 to fix it, but didn't recommend it for the "age" & mileage, 187,000, I have on my '93 SSE. The dealer said it was safe to drive it that way.
In the meantime I have just covered the "Compass" & the "Drivers Info Center", so I can drive it at nighttime.

TY, Jeff




Quote:
Originally Posted by jmark
Hi all -
I've got the same problem with my '93 SSE. It started about 3 weeks ago with a "reset" of the gauges and DIC while driving home from work. Over the next couple of days it got worse and to the point where none of the gauges worked for days at a time. I thought at first it might be a problem in the ignition switch and/or wiring because for a while I felt that if I turned the key slowly from "on" to "start" the gauges seemed to work more often. However, I think this isn't the case because it'* hit or miss. I do feel that the problem seems to be heat related. Its been real hot this summer, and when it cools down it seems more likely to work....

Last Saturday, I followed the techinfo article and removed the cluster (btw, the instructions were great, got the cluster out in about an hour and back in less than 1/2 that AND nothing broken). I took every thing apart, took a look at pins and kind of looked at solder joints. Put it all back together, back in the car and it worked great.... for 3 days!!! What a bummer!! Its off and on again, luckily more on than off (but its been cooler here this week). I'm now in the process of looking for a replacement cluster I may be able to salvage for parts and perhaps start a schematic of the cluster.

I have some questions though.....
1. Does anyone have a schematic of the cluster, or tried to "reverse-engineer" the cluster by following traces and cross referencing ICs?
2. What "pins" or "connectors" need to be cleaned up and what is the best way to do it??
3. Where is the odometer value stored??? Is it in the cluster or on board computer??
4. Does the "low fuel" signal to the HUD work if the cluster gas gauge is out???? My son drives this car alot at night and I always wonder how much gas is in it the next morning. I've been hoping that the HUD display will tell me if I'm low.

Thanks in advance for all your help... I was also able to fix the radio controls in the steering wheel last Saturday. That was one success!!
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