Hi...I'm new to this group and bid hello to you all. I currently have a repair concern and am hoping SOMEONE in this group can solve a dilemma for me regarding the CORRECT lower intake manifold torque specs on a 1994 Park Avenue (3800 series I engine VIN L). The manifold design in question has a coolant outlet (passenger end) connected to the water pump by a formed rubber hose, and an adjacent heater coolant circuit connection consisting of a metal pipe that also “plugs into” the passenger end of the manifold (with o-rings to prevent leaking, and a thin single-bolt flange bracket to secure it in place. This is the pre-“Stovepipe” design…which started with the Series II engine. It has the front mounted EGR pipe that enters the front of the plenum via a large plastic nut. According to a used part supplier, this specific manifold was used only 1 year on the PA model. The factory service manual I have calls for 89 INCH-POUNDS as the specified (torque twice) value for the lower manifold to head bolts. This seemed low, so I compared this info to the SM for my 1993 Olds Model 98. Both service manuals are quite clear and in agreement on this. The upper plenum to lower manifold torque spec is however curiously enough 22 foot-pounds!!! So... still a bit surprised at the "low torque spec" for the lower manifold bolts, I called Fel-Pro to see if they had additional, as the gaskets I purchased, while not the aluminum backed version, are sold as "improved design" and I figured possibly called for "newer" torque values. Their tech guy said his documentation did not reference a notation to depart from "factory specs" with these gaskets, but he didn't have access to see "exactly what those specs were.
Our local Buick dealer Service Manager says they "pitched out" their service manuals for the older stuff 10 years ago... so no local access to TSB info or service manual errata/addendum notifications relative to this model. And...none of their current service guys are old enough to have serviced this model and offer guidance (according to the Service Manager, they have been telling customers to try private repair shops in the area for all the older stuff since 2006 or so). Since the intake bolt torque data seems so much lower than previous and subsequent models, I've found little "solid" information on-line, and I'm in a quandary now as to how best to proceed. My feeling after removing the manifold (and all the stuff requiring removal to get to it) is that its never been off the engine (at 190K miles no less!), but 3 of the bolts were loose enough to have been removed with a hand held socket (without the ratchet). As expected... the existing LMI gaskets were well roached, and I have some significant erosion/corrosion issues to deal with at both "blind" water passage points on the existing manifold. But the bolt torque issue has made me temporarily halt the project. Most everywhere I've looked on-line for the manifold bolt torque specs. ,albeit not for specifically a '94 Park Avenue or an '03 Olds 98 (didn't find a pertinent post specific to either vehicle), called for 132 in-lb (11 ft-lb) for the lower manifold to head bolts and 89 in-lbs. for the upper plenum to lower manifold bolts. The replacement plenum by the way is embossed with a 132 in-lb (11 ft-lb) torque spec which though half of the "factory SM spec., is however for a re-designed aftermarket part.I really hate to disregard the factory specs. in the factory SM (as some others have suggested) unless I can confirm the reason (such as the specs. having been superseded)....but the SM specified 89 in-lbs is significantly lower than the 132 in-lb number I keep seeing referred to in all of the 3800 engine web posts I’ve seen… and thus my confusion and concern. The major reason I’m so concerned with arbitrarily using the higher number: I have repair experience with late '70'* 115HP Evinrude outboards, and remember that the '77 and '78 models had VERY SIGNIFICANTLY lower torque specs for the heads compared to all of their 115 HP models before or since, and several sources offer specific guidance that "very expensive damage SHALL occur" if torque values other than those specified are used (I assume meaning those used on earlier and later models). I don't know if this is the case with the '94 Park Avenue or not, and especially since its not my car, before departing from the torque figures in the Service Manual I would love to hear feedback from those of you with "first hand" knowledge as to whether those figures were superseded (as I tend to suspect) or should be used as written. I'm hoping there'* an older Buick/Olds tech or wrench turner in this group that can provide some insight on this matter, or perhaps someone with "AllData" access can relay what their say is regarding the torque specs.This repair job (at no charge) was taken on as a favor to a lady I know who had already been screwed over by the local Firestone store for over $3000 in various work (most of it unnecessary based on evaluation of the parts that were removed)...apparently a shotgun approach to repairing. And for me, it has become "the gift that has keeps giving"....what began as an anticipated throttle intake gasket replacement has evolved in to an upper plenum replacement and ...since I'm this far into it anyway, lower manifold gasket replacement… and if the original mis-fire issue remains, more thorough diagnostic work on the electrical side. I really want to wrap this one up, but the torque specification conundrum bothers me. I don't want to bolt everything down and discover problems in a week or two!
This is my first venture into servicing this particular model for this issue. And limited access to certain bolts/fittings and brackets during the process (remove 10 parts to get to the 1 you want) has me thinking more than ever "No one should ever be hired by a major car manufacturer and allowed anywhere near a drawing board or CAD system to design ANY non-cosmetic component until they work at least a year in a repair shop environment” (or alternatively…include a good mechanic on the design team)! Then, perhaps they will have greater appreciation for the fact that "people have to repair their crap when things go wrong" and give much greater thought to "what goes where, and how its mounted"! So many times it’* a $2.00 part failure behind the $500+ repair job. I would love to see this fine car stay on the road for many more miles...its a shame today'* models don't have anything approaching the ride comfort of the older Buicks and Oldsmobiles. ANYWAY....THANKS for any assistance you can give, including if you have the bolt torque order (to further compare against the factory SM)! Have A GREAT WEEK!
Mike T. My apologies in advance for the long post… I figured that more detail up front is better than multiple re-posts to provide “missing” info for anyone responding.

I won't be able to address your specific application, however I will try and dig up my '93 Buick PA and '94 Regal service manuals to see what they say.

I faced a similar dilemma when I had the same UIM issue on my PA, and followed torque procedures exactly, only to have coolant pour out of the passages that go from the LIM to the heads. More torque was applied (oomf tight on 1/4" drive) following the same torque order. That was 25k miles and several years ago, with no issues since.

I don't recall them making metal framed gaskets for the Series 1 application, but 20+ years and 190k miles isn't bad either.

Okay, so in the '93 PA manual, Intake Manifold to Head (lower) is 88in-lbs, Upper to Lower Intake Manifold is 22lb ft.

In the '94 Regal (W-Body), it lists the intake Manifold upper to lower as 11lb. ft, but does not list LIM to head torque specs that I could readily find.

I agree however, as I mentioned before, when I did mine on the PA, it certainly did seem to be a concerningly low amount of torque, that, in my case, wasn't even enough to seal the gasket up.

Thanks for your input on this! If the PA was mine I believe I'd go with the 132 in-lb value and just "cross my fingers". <strong>I'm hoping that someone will "pop in" with knowledge of a TSB relative to this issue, or with ALLDATA access to see what they list as the specification</strong>. I would expect that their data would take any TSB'* issued relative to an increase in torque spec into account.<br />The scenario you experienced is EXACTLY what I hope to avoid...and also I most certainly don;t want to chance messing up any threads in the head...because the fix at that point would definitely "be on me"....favor or no favor! In more ways than one, this PA is becoming a real "PA"!<br />Let me "pick your brain" on something else...Several posts elsewhere (non-'94 3800'* though) indicated that various folks were suggesting using "red loctite" as a substitute for the SM specified GM12345493 threadlocker (now obsolete?)...with well cleaned threaded holes in the heads, and such a relatively small diameter fastener I would think this would possibly become a BIG headache the next time the manifold needed to be removed. I'm considering using Permatex "high-temp" thread sealer. Do you remember how you addressed this? Its obvious to me from the three "hand turn-able" bolts I removed in getting the manifold off, that the original goo wasn't red loctite!<br />Thanks again...and hoping you have a great week!<br />Mike T.

I don't remember using loctite, or any other sort of bolt locker.

Thread sealer. Not Loctite.

Is it the same for a 1995 Buick Lesabre lower manifold intake and upper intake because I see that some of them are different lower and upper intakes and I can't find any help with this not even the dealers? I don't understand why I can't find anything with these lower and upper intakes!!!!

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