94 Lesabre stalls on road maybe bad connections. - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 08-23-2015, 10:48 PM   #1
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Default 94 Lesabre stalls on road maybe bad connections.

Car has been a bit hard to start for some but does start. Stalling takes place when the engine is warm and hot outside. Sometimes it will immediately restart and sometimes it will take some before you can restart.

The starter cranks well at all times and the battery easily passes a load test.

When running the alternator keeps the battery voltage up around 14 Volts.

I have noticed a couple of times that the voltage falls below 12 volts sometimes as it dies.

The dash warning lights also sometimes flicker when it dies. When the flickering happened there was also a sound of what may be a relay kind of rattling. The noise seemed to come from behind the glove box

Once when it died the engine coolant fans oscillated on and off several times before I shut the key off.

Occasionally the drivers window and door lock fail to work regardless of the problem.

It seems to die when coasting or idling and not so much when the engine is loaded.

The speedometer snapped to 0 at least once when the engine died.

I have noticed a couple of times that there was no fuel pump running sound during the episode.

When it dies it is as if a switch was thrown. There was no stumbling or bucking.

The battery cables seem to be sound and there was no corrosion.

The notorious ground busses on both sides of the car were pristine
condition.

The engine seems to rev high when restarting after the episode.

I think the problem is electrical but not sure where to look as the crappy chiltons manual does not show how the battery is connected to the relays and the battery side of the fuse box. Also I cannot find the cigarette lighter on any of the schematics . I am using the cigarette lighter for a digital volt
meter. Of course it may be something else but it seems like a loss of voltage is doing the dirty work and the battery, alternator, starter and battery cables seem to be good. Any one have any ideas about this??
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Old 08-24-2015, 12:20 PM   #2
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Has all the symptoms of a bad crank shaft position sensor. When it stalls it'* like a switch was flipped, starts immediately sometimes, other times is takes a while, happens more when the engine is warm and it is hot outside ... little doubt in my mind it'* a bad CPS.
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Old 08-24-2015, 02:02 PM   #3
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CPS doesn't explain the speedo snapping to 0, as well as some other oddities.

My guess is the driver window and door locks issue is unrelated however, because it'* an issue spanning multiple systems, drawing power through multiple places, sharing the same location.

Are you able to scan for codes to see if there are any stored? '94 PCMs don't have the perfect track record, and that is where I find myself gravitating.
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Old 08-24-2015, 03:05 PM   #4
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CPS doesn't explain the speedo snapping to 0, as well as some other oddities.

Yes it does. It did the same thing on my 01 Bonneville.
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Old 08-24-2015, 04:00 PM   #5
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Thank you both for your responses. I agree that the car in some ways acts like a defective Crank POS but would this explain the voltage drop at the cigarette lighter to less than 12 Volts? The flickering of the dash warning lights accompanied by some as yet unidentified relay clattering? And some of the other strange electrical effects?

Also between Nov. 2013 and May 2014 I have replaced the Crank POS, the Cam POS the Ignition Control Module(Twice as there was likely nothing wrong with the OEM module and the replacement was definitely defective) the coolant temp sensor and repairs to wires leading to it, the camshaft chain and gears, the water pump (which was definitely leaking) spark plugs (twice) and spark plug wires. The only thing that has definitely affected the operation of the engine was the ignition control module. Would the Crank POS go bad again in so short a time. Since I have changed it out once I have a better idea of how to do it(especially getting the bolt out of the harmonic balancer but it is a real pain to do it.)

Again I sincerely appreciate any and all helpful comments. Jimmy544
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Old 08-24-2015, 04:31 PM   #6
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Yes it does. It did the same thing on my 01 Bonneville.
I am afraid I don't understand how then, and would welcome an explanation.

Has the OP probed the battery to confirm the voltage readings, and tried manipulating cables and checking the connections at the power distribution blocks also? The only time I have seen below 12 volts was when my alternator puked, and I was driving on battery for 2 days, and even then that was with the engine running. Either there is a heavy load, or a pretty decent voltage drop.
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Old 08-24-2015, 09:18 PM   #7
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I did a load test on the battery at the terminals. The spec on my load tester is 300 Amps for 10 seconds holding 12.3 Volts. The battery passed the test. Voltage with engine running is like 13.8 to 14.4 Volts depending on what is turned on AC, headlights, engine fans, etc. There is no evidence of corrosion on the battery cables. Wiggling the cables with the engine running resulted in no changes. I took apart all of the ground cables from the battery as I could find and cleaned up the contacts with no resulting changes most were pristine. The infamous ground bus on either side of the passenger compartments were also pristine. One thing I was not able to do because of the limitations of the Chilton manual that I have does not show how the Postive connection from the Battery feeds the fuse blocks.Chilton only seems to show one side of the fuse block. I checked all of the fuses under the hood and cleaned all of the fuse connections. Another thing I did not do was check all of the connections at the relay block. Again Chilton is weak on location of other fuse blocks and relay locations. So those are not checked yet.

I would also like to know how a defective Crank POS could affect the speedometer because there is a speed sensor shown in the schematic with a separate input to the power train control module. Could it also explain why I was unable to restart the car in Neutral while rolling along but was able to restart in neutral while not moving.?

If there is a failing connection sometimes weird things happen and a big voltage drop across the connection can cause loss of function. That is what I think is happening.

Last edited by jimmy544; 08-24-2015 at 09:21 PM. Reason: did not finish explanation of my actions.
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Old 08-24-2015, 09:54 PM   #8
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If memory serves me well, the positive battery terminal has 2 cables on it, one to the starter, one that should run up the passenger side, and terminates in between the two banks of maxi fuses.
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Old 08-24-2015, 09:56 PM   #9
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Although, I think the alternator is involved in there somewhere as well. I can't remember, but I do recall the maxifuse block getting power from the center.
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Old 08-24-2015, 11:58 PM   #10
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there are 3 wires from the positive terminal of the battery. One goes to the starter motor, one goes to the alternator and the goes to the key switch. One of the outputs of the key switch goes up to the fuse box. MyChilton manual then only shows the load side of the fuses and I have not found yet or probably the manual does not show the connection to the other fuse blocks and relay blocks and also does not do a good job show the location of said blocks.

94 Lesabre 3800
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