2002 SLE, another stall issue
07-28-2009, 06:23 PM
#21
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removed IAC, which was new.. the pintel was GONE. It had unscrewed itself from shaft and dropped into passage.. found it after took off throttle body, on engine side of butterfly :< .. put some loctite on the threads and reassembled.. I will wait until tomorrow to start, let it set up.. not a confidence builder for that new part to say the least..
08-06-2009, 06:18 PM
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after fixing IAC:
back to old problem of starting car, fires immediately then usually just as quickly dies. I had it idling for 45 minutes one time, wouldn't die. shut it off tried to restart and back to same old thing, fire, then die.
if I do get it to idle, it idles very smoothly, then just stops, like you turned it off, elect still works okay
I noticed the security light flickers when it dies, but don't know if that'* because of the shutdown or what
Interesting phenomena is if I have it idling, and I tap the bezel around the key, (which is on the dash), it will die. Think my next area of investigation will be the ignition cylinder.
Thus far:
Intense PCM
new IAC
New TPS
new Cam Sensor
new Crank sensor
pumped out about a quart of fuel out of the pressure gage vent because I was suspecting bad fuel, but no issues, and after 30 minutes being off my fuel pressure is still over 38#
I took a small screwdriver and checked EVERY pin was seated from all sensors and ICM and PCM.
every ground point I can find I have totally disassembled, cleaned and reassembled.
still no codes of course..
back to old problem of starting car, fires immediately then usually just as quickly dies. I had it idling for 45 minutes one time, wouldn't die. shut it off tried to restart and back to same old thing, fire, then die.
if I do get it to idle, it idles very smoothly, then just stops, like you turned it off, elect still works okay
I noticed the security light flickers when it dies, but don't know if that'* because of the shutdown or what
Interesting phenomena is if I have it idling, and I tap the bezel around the key, (which is on the dash), it will die. Think my next area of investigation will be the ignition cylinder.
Thus far:
Intense PCM
new IAC
New TPS
new Cam Sensor
new Crank sensor
pumped out about a quart of fuel out of the pressure gage vent because I was suspecting bad fuel, but no issues, and after 30 minutes being off my fuel pressure is still over 38#
I took a small screwdriver and checked EVERY pin was seated from all sensors and ICM and PCM.
every ground point I can find I have totally disassembled, cleaned and reassembled.
still no codes of course..
08-06-2009, 09:57 PM
#23
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completely disassembled the ignition switch, a learning experience..
take the cylinder out of the ignition before trying to remove from dash via the radio hole. (turn to on, push lock tab in body and remove)
The interlock with the shift was interesting, little tab on side to remove from body, was easy after found tab..
removed wiring and there are some massive electrical contacts in there, two were covered with the type of residue you see when contacts arc..
ground them a bit with a dremel, (hard to get too) bad idea probably..
Reassembled.
tested car.. worse then ever before, car starts and sputters and coughs trying to sounds like crap, never been that bad before..
I think I'm on to something.
I think I ground too much off the contacts.. tomorrow I will look at it a little closer.. maybe see if I can get a new ignition body.. fun fun
take the cylinder out of the ignition before trying to remove from dash via the radio hole. (turn to on, push lock tab in body and remove)
The interlock with the shift was interesting, little tab on side to remove from body, was easy after found tab..
removed wiring and there are some massive electrical contacts in there, two were covered with the type of residue you see when contacts arc..
ground them a bit with a dremel, (hard to get too) bad idea probably..
Reassembled.
tested car.. worse then ever before, car starts and sputters and coughs trying to sounds like crap, never been that bad before..
I think I'm on to something.
I think I ground too much off the contacts.. tomorrow I will look at it a little closer.. maybe see if I can get a new ignition body.. fun fun
08-07-2009, 01:43 PM
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I completely reassembled everything and then did a step by step.. including taking apart the ignition switch itself, just cause I wanted to see what was in there.. did it without destroying it and reassembled no problem.
I will get it organized and see if I can figure out how to upload it..
DOES ANYONE HAVE THE WIRING DIAGRAM for the ignition switch?
There is a spring loaded pin in the center of the switch that is depressed when the key is inserted into the cylinder. when I push it in with a pencil (no cylinder installed) , I get continuity between two contacts, if I put the cylinder in and then the key, I get nothing.. wondering if that is my problem.
I will get it organized and see if I can figure out how to upload it..
DOES ANYONE HAVE THE WIRING DIAGRAM for the ignition switch?
There is a spring loaded pin in the center of the switch that is depressed when the key is inserted into the cylinder. when I push it in with a pencil (no cylinder installed) , I get continuity between two contacts, if I put the cylinder in and then the key, I get nothing.. wondering if that is my problem.
08-07-2009, 03:57 PM
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i completely reassembled everything and then did a step by step.. Including taking apart the ignition switch itself, just cause i wanted to see what was in there.. Did it without destroying it and reassembled no problem.
I will get it organized and see if i can figure out how to upload it..
Does anyone have the wiring diagram for the ignition switch?
There is a spring loaded pin in the center of the switch that is depressed when the key is inserted into the cylinder. When i push it in with a pencil (no cylinder installed) , i get continuity between two contacts, if i put the cylinder in and then the key, i get nothing.. Wondering if that is my problem.
I will get it organized and see if i can figure out how to upload it..
Does anyone have the wiring diagram for the ignition switch?
There is a spring loaded pin in the center of the switch that is depressed when the key is inserted into the cylinder. When i push it in with a pencil (no cylinder installed) , i get continuity between two contacts, if i put the cylinder in and then the key, i get nothing.. Wondering if that is my problem.
08-07-2009, 04:07 PM
#27
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Fixed
Hi everyone, Got a 2002 SLE that can't drive anymore as it'* gotten too unreliable. Has the stall at idle issue that appears to be fairly common, and can be caused by LOTS of things. The forum has been great at helping learn about all the in'* and out'* of this GM.
The issue, stalls at low rpm, like coming to stop sign and now often--- starts and immediately stalls.
of course there are NO Codes, that would be too easy.
Car seems to run okay when at speed, which would appear to rule out exhaust issues.
There have been only two part replacements, the IAC valve, guess what, you pull it instead of push it and it comes apart.. didn't trust it after that so bought a new one. Also replaced the plugs, they were original and actually they all looked good for 109K miles, new ones made no difference to issue.
I have done the following checks per the advice and where available, procedures on the forum:
Checked fuel pressure, normal - pressure reg functioning ok
Checked all grounds and battery connections - car is amazingly clean I had the cabin down to metal in about an hour thanks to the forum data on removing things, connections looked good, re-did them anyway
TPS, smooth ramp, both on meter and watching with scan tool
MAF, cleaned, seems to respond ok on scanner
MAP and PCV, just inspected and cleaned pcv
EGR, inspected and cleaned, it looked good, no sticking or binding
checked coils and ICM per procedure, everything checked out, no cracks, resistance good
Cam magnet is there and is clean
checked wiring to/from Cam and Crank sensors, connections good
Checked wiring at ECM/PCM
checked all relays and fuses, and connections under rear seat reseated all grounds and battery connections
Checked connections at starter, no issues noted
Checked all wiring which ran across engine looking for any issues, none noted
Ran a bottle of Fuel Injector cleaner through, just the gas add in kind. so not a real good clean I know.
when looking at real time data on scantool:
vacume at idle is about 9.5 to 10"
timing advance starts at +7 at start and ends up at +22.5 after idling for a while (normal ?)
inlet air temp sits around 120 (at idle) which seems high to me as it'* 75 outside.
O2 sensor voltage seems to cycle like its is supposed to.
A new wrinkle is in the last few days of testing, sometimes when turn key to start, just sits there, long enough for fuel pump relay to kick off (so > 3 sec or so), then suddenly will crank and start, hasn't done that before, will still die most times so don't know if that is related to stall issue.
My next steps are taking to a shop with a full scanner in the hope they can see something I can't, and I have my fears on that, or starting a parts swap from the boneyard aka shotgunning it.
Unless somebody can think of something else to try.
The issue, stalls at low rpm, like coming to stop sign and now often--- starts and immediately stalls.
of course there are NO Codes, that would be too easy.
Car seems to run okay when at speed, which would appear to rule out exhaust issues.
There have been only two part replacements, the IAC valve, guess what, you pull it instead of push it and it comes apart
.. didn't trust it after that so bought a new one. Also replaced the plugs, they were original and actually they all looked good for 109K miles, new ones made no difference to issue.I have done the following checks per the advice and where available, procedures on the forum:
Checked fuel pressure, normal - pressure reg functioning ok
Checked all grounds and battery connections - car is amazingly clean I had the cabin down to metal in about an hour thanks to the forum data on removing things, connections looked good, re-did them anyway
TPS, smooth ramp, both on meter and watching with scan tool
MAF, cleaned, seems to respond ok on scanner
MAP and PCV, just inspected and cleaned pcv
EGR, inspected and cleaned, it looked good, no sticking or binding
checked coils and ICM per procedure, everything checked out, no cracks, resistance good
Cam magnet is there and is clean
checked wiring to/from Cam and Crank sensors, connections good
Checked wiring at ECM/PCM
checked all relays and fuses, and connections under rear seat reseated all grounds and battery connections
Checked connections at starter, no issues noted
Checked all wiring which ran across engine looking for any issues, none noted
Ran a bottle of Fuel Injector cleaner through, just the gas add in kind. so not a real good clean I know.
when looking at real time data on scantool:
vacume at idle is about 9.5 to 10"
timing advance starts at +7 at start and ends up at +22.5 after idling for a while (normal ?)
inlet air temp sits around 120 (at idle) which seems high to me as it'* 75 outside.
O2 sensor voltage seems to cycle like its is supposed to.
A new wrinkle is in the last few days of testing, sometimes when turn key to start, just sits there, long enough for fuel pump relay to kick off (so > 3 sec or so), then suddenly will crank and start, hasn't done that before, will still die most times so don't know if that is related to stall issue.
My next steps are taking to a shop with a full scanner in the hope they can see something I can't, and I have my fears on that, or starting a parts swap from the boneyard aka shotgunning it.
Unless somebody can think of something else to try.
So a freebie fix, except for the 1/2 an engine I replaced on the path to this
.
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