Shifting out of Park issues. - Page 2 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-13-2009, 04:19 PM   #11
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Thread Starter
 
xtremerevolution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Lenox, IL
Posts: 2,478
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
xtremerevolution is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danthurs View Post
There'* a linkage on the inside, #800 in the diagram. That goes to the parking pin. If this is sloppy, it would make sense that the computer will see the shifts correctly, because that'* from the outside of the trans. But the trans won't leave park.
Mike:
So you're saying I can take off the differential cover while the engine is in the car? I imagine I'll be draining the transmission fluid first, right? I'm planning on changing the filter anyway. I'm trying to avoid pulling the engine.

If you could walk me through this procedure, I would very much appreciate it. I've taken apart and put together a Jaguar V12 and replaced its transmission, but I had a 750 page book to walk me through it all.

As I mentioned, gears engage properly and sound exactly as they should. Are we on the same page in thinking that the Park pawl is not disengaging, rather than other gears not engaging?

I'll get a video up tomorrow of the car attempting to shift into gears from Park.


Out of curiosity, how long does it take a transmission to reach higher operating temperature? My engine was at 180 degrees, and although I have a beefy trans cooler, it usually heats up much quicker. I was out there for a good 15 minutes and the transmission never read higher than 108 degrees. I thought that was a bit unusual. Also in regard to the TCC engaging earlier in this thread, I have to admit that the amount of time it took for it to engage was very unusual. I would drive 15 miles before the TCC would engage. This never happened before, even last year when I was in Chicago in the cold, the TCC would engage every time. Just things to think about, if they're at all relevant.
xtremerevolution is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 04:24 PM   #12
Retired Senior Admin

Expert Gearhead
 
Danthurs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sheboygan Wisconsin
Posts: 29,661
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 13 Posts
Danthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to all
Default

I don't have a write up on removing the diff cover. But what you need to do is jack up the car, remove the right wheel and splash guard. Remove the right axle and then undo the bolts, 4 of them I believe. Drop the pan first and drain fluid. There'* a trans mount I think needs to be removed on the diff cover. The cover then comes right off. Oh ya, unplug the speed sensor. I'll try to run out in the shop and snap a few pictures of the inside linkage and the parking pin area.
Danthurs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 04:42 PM   #13
Retired Senior Admin

Expert Gearhead
 
Danthurs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sheboygan Wisconsin
Posts: 29,661
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 13 Posts
Danthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to all
Default

OK, I have a few pictures, hopefully Mike can help shed some light on this. Transmissions are something I'm still learning about.

The linkage on the inside of the case, if this linkage is loose then the parking pinion wont disengage.
Name:  PC130285.jpg
Views: 84
Size:  118.6 KB

This is the other end of the transmission with the diff cover removed.
Name:  PC130286.jpg
Views: 85
Size:  148.6 KB

This is the shaft that the shifting linkage is attached, and this goes to the linkages inside the case.


This is the diff cover.
Name:  PC130288.jpg
Views: 81
Size:  85.3 KB
Danthurs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 04:44 PM   #14
Senior Administrator


Certified Car Nut
 
Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Horseheads, NY
Posts: 15,638
Thanked 991 Times in 770 Posts
Mike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Dan pretty much nailed it on the head as far as popping that diff cover off. If your going to change fluid and filter go ahead and drop that pan, if you want to wait, see if you can just jack up the passenger side of the car only. Doing that will minimize fluid loss to about 1/4 cup or so.

Just went out and looked at mine real quick.

Take tire off
Seperate steering knuckle from lower A-arm
You should be able to pop CV shaft out of trans at this point. Without having to remove the 34mm nut from axle.
2 bolts on side of engine for eng/trans bracket
2 bolts for lower left bracket
and then 2 more for the diff cover itself.
Bolts should be 13mm.
Keep us posted
Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 04:53 PM   #15
Senior Administrator


Certified Car Nut
 
Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Horseheads, NY
Posts: 15,638
Thanked 991 Times in 770 Posts
Mike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond repute
Default

NICE PICS DAN!

I don't think your TCC is relevant to your park issue. Read on....

Quote:
Both style sensors are negative temperature coefficient
thermisters and both provide transaxle fluid temperature
information to the PCM. The PCM sends a 5 volt reference
signal to the sensors and measures the voltage drop in the circuit.
The internal resistance of the sensors will drop as the operating
temperatures of the transaxle fluid increase. The PCM then uses
this information for determining when to engage or disengage
the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) or the Viscous Converter
Clutch (VCC).
The PCM inhibits TCC/VCC operation until transaxle fluid
temperature reaches approximately 45C (113F). At this
temperature, the PCM will allow the TCC/VCC to engage
providing the throttle position, gear obtained, and other vehicle
operating conditions are met.
If transaxle fluid temperatures become excessively high, above
approximately 130C (266F), the PCM will modify shift
pattern and TCC schedules to reduce the temperature.
If a situation occurs where a short or open is detected in the
circuit, the PCM will store a code and use coolant temperature
sensor information for transaxle temperature.
Your trans cooler may be keeping your trans a little too cold.
Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2010, 02:00 AM   #16
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Thread Starter
 
xtremerevolution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Lenox, IL
Posts: 2,478
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
xtremerevolution is on a distinguished road
Default

Would any of you by any chance have pictures of the parking pinion or where it locks in the differential? I'm not at all familiar with the mechanism.
xtremerevolution is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2010, 09:36 AM   #17
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston Mass
Posts: 684
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
sgp358 is on a distinguished road
Default

Guys, sorry that I missed this thread. The park issue is a common problem and what has happened is the stop at the end of the parking rod has worn away, causing the spring loaded end to travel too far and stay engaged into the parking pawl. When you move the selector into neutral, it moves the end away from the pawl and you can drive the car. You must drop the cradle and remove the side cover to change the parking rod. You DO NOT have to remove the diff cover. Once you get the side cover off, all you need to do is remover the detent plate from the linkage shaft (15 MM nut) and take the plate and shaft out. Some people simply braze the end of the shaft to stop the actuator or you can replace the shaft with a new one. If the stop totally wears away, the car may get stuck in park in ALL gears.
sgp358 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2010, 03:11 PM   #18
Senior Administrator


Certified Car Nut
 
Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Horseheads, NY
Posts: 15,638
Thanked 991 Times in 770 Posts
Mike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond repute
Default

That'* one of the things we were thinking of, but we figured the easiest way to test that theory was to drop the diff cover off and test it.

Based on your experience SGP358, do you think constantly parking on inclines without the use of the parking brake would/could cause this?
Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2010, 04:05 PM   #19
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston Mass
Posts: 684
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
sgp358 is on a distinguished road
Default

No, I don''t think that not using the E brake has anything to do with it. It is just something that happens. I think that it is just poor material that GM used for a stop on the end of the rod

Steve.
sgp358 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2010, 06:01 PM   #20
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Thread Starter
 
xtremerevolution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Lenox, IL
Posts: 2,478
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
xtremerevolution is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks sgp358; that was the answer I was looking for.

Are you saying that I need to drop the cradle in order to access the side cover on the transmission?

Could you be a little more specific in what needs to be done? I'm assuming I have to support the engine and lower the cradle (cradle=subframe, right?), and then take off that side cover? Is this simply in order to gain access to the side cover from underneath?

I'm assuming this is the plate, 15mm nut, and rod you're talking about?

Name:  PC130285.jpg
Views: 91
Size:  118.6 KB

Here'* my engine bay (very old picture, ignore the ghetto CAI.) If I could clear the brake assembly to the left of my strut tower, couldn't I remove the side cover out the top of the engine bay? Or would it still be easier to drop the cradle? Please advise. The reason why I'm asking this is because its cold outside, the wheels are frozen 1" into the ground, the parking pawl is stuck in ALL gears, and I can't for the life of me figure out how I'm going to move the car into the garage spot with the front two wheels locked up.

Name:  DSCN4570.jpg
Views: 84
Size:  148.2 KB


Also, what exact parts would I need to order for this? At minimum, I'll be changing the transmission fluid and filter, which includes the pan gasket. I'll probably install a drain plug into the transmission pan while I'm at it. Any gaskets for the side cover?

Last edited by xtremerevolution; 01-02-2010 at 06:08 PM.
xtremerevolution is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'97 Bonneville - occasional bang when shifting out of Park SignOfZeta 1992-1999 2 06-10-2011 12:14 PM
Shifting out of park duncan 1987-1991 0 02-20-2010 12:43 AM
2000 SLE having a hard time shifting out of park v12blazer 2000-2005 0 07-01-2008 04:54 PM
clunk when shifting from park to reverse billha 1992-1999 2 08-04-2005 03:20 PM
Hard shifting into Park Jim W Bonneville GXP/ Northstar Powered Cars 6 06-07-2004 09:52 PM


Tags
4t60e, parking pawl, shift linkage, transmission

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:43 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.