R134A Refrigerant pumped in with NO retrofit - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-14-2010, 03:48 PM   #1
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 54
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
boa12 is on a distinguished road
Default R134A Refrigerant pumped in with NO retrofit

Hey there. I don't know if I'm just cursed with service on my Bonny, but now I just had a shop put in the R134A instead of using the R12. He just used an adapter & pumped it in along with some stop-leak.

Is this basically alright to do, or is it a big no-no like I've read? He says he'* done it with many of the older cars in the past.
boa12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2010, 05:09 PM   #2
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
xtremerevolution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Lenox, IL
Posts: 2,478
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
xtremerevolution is on a distinguished road
Default

I too have heard you need to modify your system before you can run the newer refrigerant, but I can't for the life of me remember why.
xtremerevolution is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2010, 05:28 PM   #3
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 54
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
boa12 is on a distinguished road
Default

From what I've read now, the main reason is that the mineral oil with the old R12 system is not compatiable with the new R134a, & that the only real things that need to be done are to completely flush out the system & evacuate the old R12, & install the new type oil.

I'm trying to find out if that was even done. Now the compressor doesn't seem to be working right. Sporadic compressor on/off, but it'* pretty cool weather right now.
boa12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2010, 05:39 PM   #4
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
xtremerevolution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Lenox, IL
Posts: 2,478
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
xtremerevolution is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boa12 View Post
From what I've read now, the main reason is that the mineral oil with the old R12 system is not compatiable with the new R134a, & that the only real things that need to be done are to completely flush out the system & evacuate the old R12, & install the new type oil.

I'm trying to find out if that was even done. Now the compressor doesn't seem to be working right. Sporadic compressor on/off, but it'* pretty cool weather right now.
Right. Needs to be flushed out completely. How cool is cool weather? It should turn on even if its 50 degrees out.
xtremerevolution is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2010, 05:48 PM   #5
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 54
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
boa12 is on a distinguished road
Default

Yeah, I just got ahold of the mechanic & he says he did flush out everything & put in the ester oil, at least. It was about 65F yesterday when it wasn't clicking on though. Was working today sporadically at 71F so hope it straightens out eventually.


Found on epa,gov:

"Least-Cost Aftermarket Retrofit

Many car owners may express interest in receiving a least-cost retrofit. Procedures required for a least-cost retrofit are simple and do not require major component changes. Generally, the process calls for removal of the old refrigerant, installation of new fittings and a new label, and the addition of either a polyalkylene glycol (PAG) or polyol ester (POE or ester) lubricant as well as the R-134a refrigerant. For many vehicles, this simple, least-cost retrofit should provide the vehicle owner either with a/c performance comparable to the R-12 system performance or with a/c performance that, although slightly reduced, is still sufficient to satisfy the customer. A least-cost retrofit, however, may not provide a satisfactory solution for certain vehicles."
boa12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2010, 05:52 PM   #6
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
xtremerevolution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Lenox, IL
Posts: 2,478
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
xtremerevolution is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boa12 View Post
Yeah, I just got ahold of the mechanic & he says he did flush out everything & put in the ester oil, at least. It was about 65F yesterday when it wasn't clicking on though. Was working today sporadically at 71F so hope it straightens out eventually.


Found on epa,gov:

"Least-Cost Aftermarket Retrofit

Many car owners may express interest in receiving a least-cost retrofit. Procedures required for a least-cost retrofit are simple and do not require major component changes. Generally, the process calls for removal of the old refrigerant, installation of new fittings and a new label, and the addition of either a polyalkylene glycol (PAG) or polyol ester (POE or ester) lubricant as well as the R-134a refrigerant. For many vehicles, this simple, least-cost retrofit should provide the vehicle owner either with a/c performance comparable to the R-12 system performance or with a/c performance that, although slightly reduced, is still sufficient to satisfy the customer. A least-cost retrofit, however, may not provide a satisfactory solution for certain vehicles."
If its turning off sporadically, check if the compressor is engaged during those times. Check the compressor clutch relay to make sure the leads aren't corroded, and check the pressure in the system while its running.
xtremerevolution is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2010, 08:12 PM   #7
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 54
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
boa12 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremerevolution View Post
If its turning off sporadically, check if the compressor is engaged during those times. Check the compressor clutch relay to make sure the leads aren't corroded, and check the pressure in the system while its running.
Will do - thanks much!
boa12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2010, 08:22 PM   #8
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Black Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: STC, MN
Posts: 3,301
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Black Pearl is on a distinguished road
Default

You can't mix R12 and R134a the oils aren't compatible and will break each other down and most likely will run a different pressures. It'* the same with with your home A/C and R22 vs. R410a.

At the VERY LEAST your entire system should've been evacuated, flushed and vac'd down before refilling with R134a. I would keep your receipt from that guy in case your compressor is shot
Black Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2010, 09:18 PM   #9
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
rjolly87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 6,854
Thanked 298 Times in 246 Posts
rjolly87 has a brilliant futurerjolly87 has a brilliant futurerjolly87 has a brilliant futurerjolly87 has a brilliant futurerjolly87 has a brilliant futurerjolly87 has a brilliant futurerjolly87 has a brilliant futurerjolly87 has a brilliant futurerjolly87 has a brilliant futurerjolly87 has a brilliant futurerjolly87 has a brilliant future
Default

I suspect this swap was done on my car before I got it, and I notice that it does take a little bit to get cool, but does the job.
rjolly87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2010, 01:19 PM   #10
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 54
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
boa12 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Pearl View Post
You can't mix R12 and R134a the oils aren't compatible and will break each other down and most likely will run a different pressures. It'* the same with with your home A/C and R22 vs. R410a.

At the VERY LEAST your entire system should've been evacuated, flushed and vac'd down before refilling with R134a. I would keep your receipt from that guy in case your compressor is shot

I guess I misunderstood him the 1st time. When I called him back he said he had done all that you list & put in ester oil.

What I'm wondering about now is that he evacuated 1.5 lbs. of R12, & it shows he put in 1.7 lbs of R134a. Wouldn't that imply that the previous R12 level was OK & it was/is something else wrong with the compressor? What'* the total refrigerant capacity?

Last edited by boa12; 05-15-2010 at 01:39 PM.
boa12 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2005 Montanna SV6 200k km: Won't start unless gas pedal depressed/pumped thomsonr Pontiac 3 10-01-2011 11:46 PM
A/C - Refrigerant oil question ThomD 1992-1999 1 04-01-2009 11:53 AM
OK Race Fans I'm getting pumped. SSEBONNE4EVA Lounge 0 01-27-2006 05:11 PM
Where is the LOW pressure side to install Refrigerant? Tjnapster 1992-1999 8 06-09-2005 01:58 PM
What refrigerant do I use in a 1992 rwbonne92se 1992-1999 16 07-21-2003 06:57 PM


Tags
r134a, refrigerant

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:31 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.