Oh Crap, UIM or Engine Failure? - Page 4 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 09-03-2005, 12:38 AM   #31
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Whats a UIM?
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Old 09-03-2005, 12:31 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by VigCS
Whats a UIM?
Upper Intake Manifold

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Old 09-05-2005, 02:31 PM   #33
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Okay - We're at the point where the 28200 Chilton manual, page 3-14, upper right column, step #15, says to remove the drive belt tensioner. Anything special we need to know about removing it? If the manual says something about how to remove it - we haven't found it.
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Old 09-05-2005, 02:43 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLB
Okay - We're at the point where the 28200 Chilton manual, page 3-14, upper right column, step #15, says to remove the drive belt tensioner. Anything special we need to know about removing it? If the manual says something about how to remove it - we haven't found it.
Hmmmm.... How do I explain this one...

I myself did not want to remove the tensioner... It just meant more work for me...

Once I removed all of the bolts from the lower intake I picked up on the intake a bit and pulled( broke the Elbow would be a better description ) the elbow out of the manifold... It actually broke as the plastic was incredibly brittle... Once the elbow was free I removed the lower manifold....

When I went to install the new elbow and lower intake I applied a small bit of oil to the O rings on the elbow and inserted the elbow part way into the tensioner( do not push it all the way in ).... Give your self enought to work with, I then turned the elbow up a bit so that I could insert the elbow into the lower intake... This is where a second set of hands comes in very handy... Sliped the lower manifold onto the elbow, set the manifold in place making sure it was straight, and then checking the elbow to make sure it was secure... Once I knew the elbow was secure, I installed the lower intake maniofold bolts and tightened them...

I hope this will help you... May save some time... If I ever have to do another 3800 2 V6 I will not remove the tensioner... LOL

Let us know if you need anything else...

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Old 09-05-2005, 03:03 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr's3800
I hope this will help you... May save some time... If I ever have to do another 3800 2 V6 I will not remove the tensioner... LOL

Let us know if you need anything else...
Okay - thanks - we'll see how it goes...

Hey - it slid right off. Didn't have to remove the tensioner and didn't break the elbow either.

Thanks.
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Old 09-05-2005, 03:24 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLB
Quote:
Originally Posted by jr's3800
I hope this will help you... May save some time... If I ever have to do another 3800 2 V6 I will not remove the tensioner... LOL

Let us know if you need anything else...
Okay - thanks - we'll see how it goes...

Hey - it slid right off. Didn't have to remove the tensioner and didn't break the elbow either.

Thanks.
Glad to hear it... You did get a new Elbow right?

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Old 09-05-2005, 04:12 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr's3800
Glad to hear it... You did get a new Elbow right?
No. Haven't gotten any parts yet, since we still aren't certain what blew. But we did find our missing water. It was in the manifold, and the piston cylinders are full. Does that mean we have to pull the heads too? Any other way to get that water out?

Even though we originally thought the oil was full of water - there was no sign of any water at all in the drained oil (though it sure looked like it by the dip stick and what we wiped off it).

Anyway - the upper intake manifold looks intact, as well as it'* gasket, though we haven't cleaned them and inspected them closely yet. At present, it looks like one of the lower intake manifold seals may be what failed, as the lower gaskets don't look bad either - but one of the seals does.
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Old 09-05-2005, 04:25 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLB
Quote:
Originally Posted by jr's3800
Glad to hear it... You did get a new Elbow right?
No. Haven't gotten any parts yet, since we still aren't certain what blew. But we did find our missing water. It was in the manifold, and the piston cylinders are full. Does that mean we have to pull the heads too? Any other way to get that water out?

Even though we originally thought the oil was full of water - there was no sign of any water at all in the drained oil (though it sure looked like it by the dip stick and what we wiped off it).

Anyway - the upper intake manifold looks intact, as well as it'* gasket, though we haven't cleaned them and inspected them closely yet. At present, it looks like one of the lower intake manifold seals may be what failed, as the lower gaskets don't look bad either - but one of the seals does.
Look on the top of your intake manifold and see what Jullian date it has... There should be a month, date and year stamped on the top if its the original or a GM replacement...

Its possible that you could have an upper inatke rupture( This is what I think it is as you have described the coolany all over the place and in the cylinders...)... Its also possible that lower intake gaskets are bad as well... If these items are both original then I would highly reccomend replacing both...

For the water in the cylinders, all of the plugs will have to be removed and the engine will have to be turned over..... At this point I'll hazzard a guess and say that you have dissconnected the battery...

You will need to turn the engine over by hand to get some of the water out..

Once you get it all together you may want to leave ther plugs out, and use the starter to turn it over to get as much water out of the cylinders as possible...

I'd say the parts will run you around $200 ....

Any other questions or anything you need to know, just ask...

I should be around tomorrow afternoon...

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Old 09-05-2005, 06:46 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr's3800
Any other questions or anything you need to know, just ask...

I should be around tomorrow afternoon...
Thanks. Didn't even think of turning the engine over to get the water out.

Okay - figured out the date is November 4, 1995 - so would be original.

What all might we be looking for if we had an UIM rupture?

We still have to clean the UIM (and gasket) to inspect more closely, but at present it looks in perfect condition with no signs of cracks or warping, with the gasket looking just as good as new.

Is this kind of damage typically hard to see?

Back again -

Turning the engine over emptied the cylinders, but there is still standing water in the heads.
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Old 09-06-2005, 12:56 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLB
Quote:
Originally Posted by jr's3800
Any other questions or anything you need to know, just ask...

I should be around tomorrow afternoon...
Thanks. Didn't even think of turning the engine over to get the water out.

Okay - figured out the date is November 4, 1995 - so would be original.

What all might we be looking for if we had an UIM rupture?

We still have to clean the UIM (and gasket) to inspect more closely, but at present it looks in perfect condition with no signs of cracks or warping, with the gasket looking just as good as new.

Is this kind of damage typically hard to see?

Back again -

Turning the engine over emptied the cylinders, but there is still standing water in the heads.
Standing water in the heads? Do you have a pic of that?

Once the car is pretty much assembled, I'd leave the plugs out and the injectors connectors unplugged... And crank the car untill there is almost nothing comming out of the cylinders... I'd stand back away from tyhe car for the first several seconds while the engine is being turned over... Once you think just about all of the water is out of the cylinders reinstall the plugs, plug wires, injector connectors and then see if ther car will start... There is a possibility that the plugs may be dead after floating around the coolant...


This area around the EGR stovepipe is the most common place for failure... And if it hasn't failed I assure you it was about to... You will see the hole I made.... It took nothing for me to make that hole... And it goes all the way through... You will most likely be able to remove plastic easily from that hole... Coolant flows around that EGR port and when the plastic degrades enough, the coolant will be pumped right into the intake and injested in the cylinders...


My gasket looked brand new as well..



it was too easy to make this hole... Didn't take anywhere near a minute



This is the area where I made the hole... It can happen almost anywhere in that EGR port...

Hope that helps a little

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