LIMs and the vacuum lines from Hades - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 03-18-2010, 10:53 PM   #1
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Default LIMs and the vacuum lines from Hades

Just finished doing the LIMs on all three cars. What a great way to learn about your car, if you don't have a real wrencher to watch over you, or you're learning on your own. IMHO, if you get an older Bonne, no matter if it has 80K or 125K, replace the LIM (and UIM on an N/A).

Don't wait for the green flood, chocolate oil, or sugar exhaust to do it. Pulling everything, cleaning all of the stuff you pull off, and then reassembling it will teach you a lot.... and the car will run so much better. I put the scantool on my '95, and all of the readings which had been slipping away, are now pegged back in the good zone. Particularly fuel trims were nailed, which explains the return of a few mpgs.

BTW, can't speak for longevity, but I like those Fel-pro perma-dry aluminum, gaskets. There'* more beef around the ports than the OEM. Good solid fit, and there is more room for error, if you can't quite nail the torque spec to the in/lb. (I'm using F-Ps on the valve covers, too. My kits came with new grommets. Use new ones for the change. I found out a day late from BillBoost, that you shouldn't cheap on the grommets. My old grommets were crying oil like little babies with poot filled diapers.).

Sorry, I was wandering... Anyway..

I just about finished the '98SSEi this afternoon. The */C cars have a lot more vacuum lines to deal with. Admittedly, they are older, but after an afternoon of dealing with them, I have come to the opinion....

......they suck... and are now a frighteningly ugly mess. There is more cold fuse tape and electrical tape on them, than on the shelves at the local Home Depot. They look like I might as well have my license plate changed to "P0171" when I put her back on the road.

I have a few loops of different sized line, but is there a generic kit of vacuum lines and connectors? Or is there some highperf line which can hold a diameter and stretch to cover different sized connections?

There has to be an easier and more effective way than this nonsense.

Thanks.
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Old 03-18-2010, 10:59 PM   #2
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The first one is always fun, after that, it gets easy. Good job, now your ready to fix just about everything.
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Old 03-18-2010, 11:03 PM   #3
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Pick up a silicone vacuum line kit at Autozone or Riley'* or whomever. The kits have different sizes and you should use the line diameter that just fits over the connector. Too small of vacuum line can actually collapse.
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Old 03-19-2010, 07:32 AM   #4
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Charlie... I actually prefer the SC'd to the NA'* for doing LIM'*. No fear of warped manifolds or broken plastic pieces. The vacuum is in reality no where near as bad as it seems the first time out. Check out the diagram on the radiator support. You have a horseshoe going around the charger to supply most stuff, then the brake booster and hvac going to the top of the charger. Leave the BCS/BCA in place and that'* all there really is beyond a couple evap hoses.

Best best on fixing up the vacuum is about $10 at the parts store for some various hose sizing and then spend the $30 at the dealership for a fresh horseshoe. You'll be in vacuum heaven after replacing the ....12 year old lines.
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:54 AM   #5
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Thanks for the comments.

It was those "T"* for the MAP, */C and FPR on that horseshoe. They have to be fresh rubber or they split, or won't grip. The connector on the throttle body from the purge valve just plain split off, even though i used a screwdriver to tenderly work it off. By the time I posted, I had enough tape n' stuff holding lines together, the engine bay looked like a cross between a commercial for black band-aids and an exploding party favor.

I think the bill for the line for the 90% re-overhaul was under $10, tax included. A 2000+ horseshoe harness (for the "T"*) and throttle body/purge connector, i picked up at the dealer. They were $40+. Not bad for 5 little pieces of rubber and 1 bent plastic straw. I guess I found out why they have a K-Y jelly dispenser in the Men'* Room by the Service Area.

So, it'* done right, now. everything is snug and it looks presentable, as a bonus.

Side note: With the phantom unaccounted air which appeared and disappeared for the past year finally gone, fuel trims and advance better than ever, i decided to take my first official KR check run in the SSEi. I borrowed a Scangauge II from a buddy'* son. Except i didn't know he had an idiot savant sense of humor.

After all of the posts i have read over the years, i have a pretty good idea where KR would likely show up, and acceptable values for it, if any. Stand and punch. Mid-speed roll and punch. Hard brake for a right turn, with a punch through the shift and turn. etc. I'm expecting to see some.. BUT.. I'm getting 10s, 20s, 40s on the gauge. Holyspit.

So I head home, clean the brown off of the driver'* seat, change my pants, put the "For Sale' sign on the car, and head down the street to return the gauge. RainMan Jr asks how it went. And i tell him "with readings like that, I'm lucky i didn't crack a piston or shake the engine off of the mounts. It feels fantastic, and i checked compression when I bought it, but it'* amazing the car can make it to the grocery store." Then Son of Einstein grins and spills the beans....

"Didn't i tell you the KR reading on the Scangauge is missing a decimal point. 20 is 2.0"

"Uh, No. But you might want to remember to tell your Mom, she can pick you up at the hospital in about 5 or 6 hours after your plastic surgery and having my foot removed from your @$$."



So mods it is .. a gauge for KR, an FWI, MPS, hi-flo cat, BoostThurs Shift Kit. The PCM or Tune is a question. There'* nobody around here who can do a real Tune, and I'm not sure the off-the-shelf is a plus or minus. Plus the timing of it, because if the car stays stable, then the front exhaust, downpipe, and find somebody to walk me through the rockers.

Anyway.. good driving.. and I hope to see y'all in "Performance" for questions.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:21 AM   #6
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Charlie...what'* valley forge near? Pitts or NY? Hopefully you aren't dead center of that dreadful state.

BTW it'* not possible to get more KR than you have timing. Once you said twenty I giggled a little.
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:51 PM   #7
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Charlie:

Congrats on your fine work. I have a '98 SE that may need some of your expertise. I'm in South Jersey about 35 miles from Valley Forge if you're ever available.
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Old 03-24-2010, 11:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBoost37 View Post
Charlie...what'* valley forge near? Pitts or NY? Hopefully you aren't dead center of that dreadful state.

BTW it'* not possible to get more KR than you have timing. Once you said twenty I giggled a little.
Valley Forge, like in Valley Forge Park. ... NW suburbs of Philadelphia. It'* rumored that George Washington slept here one winter.

Dreadful?

OK. So the State is bankrupt, and Phila is worse than bankrupt. Stuff happens, but we take initiative to solve our problems.The Phila School District needs money to make the schools habitable by human beings. This June they are having a lottery for the students. The first 10,000 students chosen will be sold for medical experiments to raise cash. You might think parents would be against the idea, but then again, you haven't had to deal with a kid from Phila.

Penna raised the taxes on gasoline and liquor. Liquor sales are up because a lot of people have more time on their hands, but we can't afford to drive to the liquor store. So, we're working on a major campaign. "Walk to the Liquor Store". It'll save energy, and the exercise will be a major part of this year'* unfunded State Healthcare plan.

Yep, I'd much rather be in Connecticut. 240 years, and they still can't pronounce the name of their state, as it is spelled. Or they misspelled it, and nobody has noticed yet. The bedroom state to the Wizards of Wall Street, after a long day of nuking the rest of the US. Where else can you find a State Motto like "Beer, it'* not just for breakfast anymore".

I like to think of Connecticut as the West Virginia of New England. There are so precious few states left, where guys think family picnics are a great place to meet girls. My favorite thing about it is its size. I can drive to Vermont for skiing, and don't have to worry about stopping or risking my life getting out of the car in Connecticut.

Then there'* Enfield. Now there'* an international tourist destination. Besides being the home of the Dean of Bonnevillism and Beer in the eastern US, its most appropriate distinction is as the suburb of someplace called Hazzardville.

If I can calm the mood for a minute...

Bill... I think my wife best summarizes my work with the cars....

"You are fighting a battle of wits with those cars, and you're half-armed."

There are more important things in life than cars, but the SSEi is like being in a forbidden romance.... enamored by a vampire. You never know if she is going to kiss ya, or sink her teeth into your neck. She had the White Curse so badly when I got her, I had to keep my eye on the rearview mirror for car parts left behind in the road, while i waited for the next strange noise from the engine bay.

Then again, the '95 spends 5 or 6 months a year at the Coatesville Veterans Hospital. Volunteers use it to get patients to their appointments. In 4 years, it has not failed the people counting on it. Not once. Not ever.

I bear witness to this, not as some imagined ability on my part, but as testimony to the value of advice and information donated by the people on a board like this. Some people more than most.

If I can craft a recount of the humor within my misadventures, and it garners a knowing chuckle in distant Enfield, Connecticut, then my full intention has been met.

Still, that kid almost gave me a freakin' heartattack, before i realized something more than the car had to be wrong.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot View Post
Charlie:

Congrats on your fine work. I have a '98 SE that may need some of your expertise. I'm in South Jersey about 35 miles from Valley Forge if you're ever available.
Hey Snaggle..

Heck, I can shout that far. I would classify my "expertise" more as the result of vast experience in ignorance. One thing I have learned about our cars is that it is best to stay ahead of the curve. The majority of things which can happen to our cars is relatively limited. At the same time, they are highly probable. And they are very cheap and/or easy to prevent. My point being, if you have a "hint" that something is on the way, it'* best to get to it.

If you are having a problem, PM me. We'll see what'* up, and if I can be of help.

One thing is for sure, working on a problem with other people, is half the work and twice the fun.
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:59 AM   #9
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Sounds like we're both learning the same way. I had to do my gaskets in January. First time I had ever tore apart a motor I had to put back together. Like you said, learned alot. Definitely helped that I had the step-by-step guide on this forum and one of my friends to help.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:13 AM   #10
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Charlie...

I feel the mood and pain you endure. In my states defense, there is none. We are the capital of all insurance companies, which we pay dearly for..believe me.

Howeeeeeevvver, you live in a state where every, and I mean every bridge is preceded with a sign that states "bridge freezes before road", that'* not even Driver'* Ed 101. Driving through your lovely state of rolling hills, horrible pot holes, never ending construction sites (seriously..how the heck do you have a 50 mile stretch of construction?) and I come upon signs that make me wonder who they are amined at.

Seen on street signs and fixed billboards:
Bridge freezes before road
Beware: drunk driving checkpoint ahead (actual fixed billboard)
Beware of aggressive drivers
Aggressive driving area

I still don't see the vacuum lines on our cars as the evil devil you make it out to be....lol
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