Help! Need all the melted intake info I can get!!!!!!! - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 12-06-2006, 05:35 PM   #1
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Default Help! Need all the melted intake info I can get!!!!!!!

Its been awhile but I'm back. The intake finally went on me up here in Montreal and it'* at the dealer now. 70,040 miles.

Check this horror story. I had bought an $1800 extended warranty with the car, 3 yr/36000 mi. I noticed the coolant going low only when it began to overheat, because my nifty DIC has a mind of it'* own and decided not to warn me about a low coolant condition. Before I got it to the dealer (constantly refilling the coolant) it began slurping large amouts of the stuff. The dealer checks it over, and calls my warranty company. I speak with the service writer and he tells me he "knows" what the problem is, "the cat. conv. is plugged, overheating the egr system and melting the plenum" then he asks for my authorization to pull the heads to further diagnose the problem. What?! I speak with my claim rep and he tells me that if the cat is the culprit (not covered by my warranty) all the repairs subsequent will not be covered (so far over $4k, new plenum, heads, the whole 9 yards)

My warranty company is sending an inspector there tomorrow. I have spoke again with the service guy and pleaded with him to find another cause, because honestly I think the cat story is bull**** (I didn't mention the bs part to him :p) I can't see how my cat was plugged that whole time and it never threw another code. I need all the info on these intake failures I can get, popular posts/threads, especially official GM stuff, because I see a great battle with the warranty company looming on the horizon. To me all I can see is the all too common intake failure and the naive guy wants to be a know it all telling me he "knows" what the problem is but wants more diag time. And on the other hand the warranty company is suckin that explanation right from his face to cover their A$$ and wipe their hands clean of me. OMG WHAT DO I DO? AAAAAaaaaarrrrrrgggggggaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh <gurgle>
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:45 PM   #2
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Your egr stovepipe from the LIM burned through the UIM due to a poor design from GM. We do about 50 of these a year. Your local GM dealer should be very familiar with it.

I hope they drained the oil. Because you likely have water and coolant rusting out your rod bearings if they didn't.

Don't remove the heads. They're not even closely related to the problem. The UIM should be replaced, and all the LIM gaskets and coolant elbows.
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:22 PM   #3
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http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...e=article&k=38

theres some reading material for ya
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:31 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Your egr stovepipe from the LIM burned through the UIM due to a poor design from GM. We do about 50 of these a year. Your local GM dealer should be very familiar with it.

I hope they drained the oil. Because you likely have water and coolant rusting out your rod bearings if they didn't.

Don't remove the heads. They're not even closely related to the problem. The UIM should be replaced, and all the LIM gaskets and coolant elbows.
I checked the oil regularly while it was burning coolant. It was not leaking directly into the crankcase, the oil was good and brown. However, turning the filler cap over I could see some beige colored foam collecting up there, and I presume it is the moisture blowing by the piston rings of the cylinder/* that were receiving the coolant. He suggested rmoving the heads because I did mention that under heavy throttle the I had a large bluish cloud of smoke from the exhaust and the motor had become quite hot on a few occasions. They want to replace both heads, if its all covered by the warranty I'm all for it. My problem is that this is a Pontiac dealer that'* telling me the cat is the culprit of all this, even after he confirmed knowing about this design'* LIM/UIM woes. I don't know what to do with these people. Do they want to get paid or what?

Edit: Also, as I reported to the service writer, about the same time the coolant started disappearing, I had an extreme lifter tap at cold startup, gradually subsiding until operating temp, which it then got quiet. Just before bringing it to the dealer I noticed it stopping. At 1st I noticed a wet spot on the corner of the LIM itself, and I was assuming it was an external leak, and I put quite some mileage on the car before I was sure it was burning copious amounts of coolant, I would like them to pull the heads just to see the extent of the damage.
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:36 PM   #5
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I dont see how replacing the heads would do any good at all, even if it is covered by warranty, youre still going to have the same problem.

If they dont want to fix it right, I say you tell them to screw off, buy the parts and do it yourself, that way you know its fixed right.

its about 200-300 dollars at most for the parts. Then the time and knowhow to do it. The knowhow can be found right here though.

But the heads arent causing your problem, Ive been lurking around here quite a while and have never seen the heads of a 3800 motor cause any mechanical problems at all.
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleHoov
I dont see how replacing the heads would do any good at all, even if it is covered by warranty, youre still going to have the same problem.

If they dont want to fix it right, I say you tell them to screw off, buy the parts and do it yourself, that way you know its fixed right.

its about 200-300 dollars at most for the parts. Then the time and knowhow to do it. The knowhow can be found right here though.

But the heads arent causing your problem, Ive been lurking around here quite a while and have never seen the heads of a 3800 motor cause any mechanical problems at all.
Nay, no one said the heads were the culprit, but may have become damaged subsquently. Like I posted before, I put quite some miles on the car in this condition and it got quite hot (not into the red, but since my DIC only works when it wants to, I don't trust that damn temp gauge either). Although, now that I think about it, they did say it passed a compression test. Hrmph. They want to replace it all, both heads, UIM and LIM, and all related gaskets. My main problem is that this guy is telling me the catalytic converter caused all of this, and this is going to null my warranty.

This is not a GM warranty, it is a purchased one, so the delaer would only lose out by telling me the cat was the problem. The only other thing I can think of is that somehow they know this whole deal will not be con=vered and they trying to milk me of all diagnostic time they can before I take my poor baby back in pieces!
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:56 PM   #7
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I can't tell you it'* not the Cat. But I can tell you I don't think it is. We've never seen a cat do that. If it were that bad, you'd have major drivability issues.

Have the cat flowtested at their expense if they want to blame it. If Cats get that hot, the break down and flow great. They rattle, but flow great.
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Old 12-06-2006, 07:07 PM   #8
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Do they have this car torn down yet? Is this warranty accepted at anoy other GM dealerships?

I strongly suggest taking it elsewhere

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Old 12-06-2006, 07:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr's3800
Do they have this car torn down yet? Is this warranty accepted at anoy other GM dealerships?

I strongly suggest taking it elsewhere
No they havenčt got as far as taking the heads off. They requested authorization late in the afternoon and unless this guy is a whiz, he isn't going to dive into pulling the heads an hour before quitting time. I'm calling them 1st thing in the morning and using all this time to gear myself up to know what to say, because when I run out of things to say I start hitting people.
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Old 12-06-2006, 10:04 PM   #10
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I just went through 3 weeks of trying to convince my dealer of, at least an uppers failure. I had a 6 month "comprehensive" waranty from them. But their strategy was to deny the problem because my warranty was up in 150 miles. It'* a long story, but a second opinion was invaluable. It turned the tide in my favor.

Every technical point I went over with the experienced wrenches here, was 100% correct. I also went through hours of threads here on the UIM/LIM. I don't remember any that said the CAUSE was the cat. There were a few that believed the cat was compromised BECAUSE so much coolant had blown through. Based on that research (and it was not 100%) the conclusion would be the cat is messed because of the intake failure, not the other way around.

The wierd thing about your situation is the million dollar workup by the dealer. Then he pushes it outside of the warranty. I don't know what he is after. If he says it is just the usual intake failure, he gets the work, and the warranty company pays him. Win for you, win for him. By saying what he is saying he is risking losing the work because you can get an excellent remanu engine with warranty like a Jasper for $4k, if it'* coming out of your pocket.

Unless he has some unholy relationship with the warranty company.

One way or the other, I'm for the second opinion.

edit: get that car out of there. That inspector from the warranty company has no business reason to be your friend.
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