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Old 02-25-2004, 04:45 AM   #41
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All our police cars here are Crown Vics. So are all the cabs, and about 10% of the population. Makes for some nerve wracking "hurrying" sometimes....


Sorry, back to the topic....
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Old 02-25-2004, 04:48 AM   #42
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Regardless of my personal convictions or beliefs on this topic, I WILL get the bottom of it. If I'm wrong, I'll say so. What'* important here is that our members get the right information.

By RIGHT information, I mean the information that will keep them safe, and their cars in good condition. This also means that if information is shared here, and the source or endorsement is stated or implied, It'* my responsibility to confirm it.

There are 2000 Bonneville owners here that want to know the truth, and if I'm wrong about this, they'll know.

Phone calls will be made in the morning. I'm off to bed.
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Old 02-25-2004, 09:28 AM   #43
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Default brakes gone bad!

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
What I find interesting is that our local PD doesn't use drilled rotors, either. Ram Air, can you give us more details?
Yes you are right, the Police cars do not use cross drilled rotors or slotted rotors, If you look at all my comments. I said that the police interceptor cars! (police interceptor cars meaning ford, Chevy and you name it) use the cryogenics SOLID rotors.

My preference is the Cryogenics Rotors.

and to answer your question. We Pontiac owners may I repeat that OWNERS at Covington Pontiac do the testings ourselves, not Pontiac and have tested all 3.

I have had my Powerstops for 2 years now and still no signs of fade or even a wear on both the pads and the rotor (stress cracks, I think your just going by solid rotors that have been drilled) Mine are not solid rotors they are vented on the sides just like your GM brake rotors but thicker. you have only had yours for 1 year. show me your rotors in 2 years and then will talk again about this issue.

PLEASE ALL OF YOU VIEW THESE 2 WEBSITES AND SEE FOR YOURSELF
http://www.commandautomotive.com/index.html
http://www.off-road.com/isuzu/womb_brakes.html
ENOUGH SAID UNTIL YOU HAVE TRULY TESTED YOURS FOR OVER 2 YEARS!

IT JUST SHOWS THAT IF YOU TRULY WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH LOOK IT UP YOURSELF AND DO THE TESTINGS YOURSELF, LIKE WHAT I DID.

MAKE THAT 2001 MEMBERS - THANKS FOR BEING PART OF THE BONNE CLUB!
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Old 02-25-2004, 10:07 AM   #44
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all I have to say is that nothing last forever. AND THATS THE BOTTOM LINE!!!!!!



Again.........this is not a flame.
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Old 02-25-2004, 11:31 AM   #45
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Default Re: brakes gone bad!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RamAir V
Yes you are right, the Police cars do not use cross drilled rotors or slotted rotors, If you look at all my comments. I said that the police interceptor cars! (police interceptor cars meaning ford, Chevy and you name it) use the cryogenics SOLID rotors.

My preference is the Cryogenics Rotors.

and to answer your question. We Pontiac owners may I repeat that OWNERS at Covington Pontiac do the testings ourselves, not Pontiac and have tested all 3.

I have had my Powerstops for 2 years now and still no signs of fade or even a wear on both the pads and the rotor (stress cracks, I think your just going by solid rotors that have been drilled) Mine are not solid rotors they are vented on the sides just like your GM brake rotors but thicker. you have only had yours for 1 year. show me your rotors in 2 years and then will talk again about this issue.
If you prefer the Cryogenic ones, why don't you have them? Did you have them on your car before? If so how did they perform for you? I've seen the website already. I'll probably get the RSM slotted ones eventually beause they are proven to work exceptionally on our cars, but I still want to know more about the other ones.
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Old 02-25-2004, 11:44 AM   #46
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Default Re: brakes gone bad!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonnie94sse
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamAir V
Yes you are right, the Police cars do not use cross drilled rotors or slotted rotors, If you look at all my comments. I said that the police interceptor cars! (police interceptor cars meaning ford, Chevy and you name it) use the cryogenics SOLID rotors.

My preference is the Cryogenics Rotors.

and to answer your question. We Pontiac owners may I repeat that OWNERS at Covington Pontiac do the testings ourselves, not Pontiac and have tested all 3.

I have had my Powerstops for 2 years now and still no signs of fade or even a wear on both the pads and the rotor (stress cracks, I think your just going by solid rotors that have been drilled) Mine are not solid rotors they are vented on the sides just like your GM brake rotors but thicker. you have only had yours for 1 year. show me your rotors in 2 years and then will talk again about this issue.
If you prefer the Cryogenic ones, why don't you have them? Did you have them on your car before? If so how did they perform for you? I've seen the website already. I'll probably get the RSM slotted ones eventually beause they are proven to work exceptionally on our cars, but I still want to know more about the other ones.
I agree, I'm open minded enough to discuss this RamV but we need to get some facts and by that I mean a lot more than a couple of web links for iszu 4x4'*. We have been running Bonnevilles for over a decade and have lots of experience with brakes and braking materials, our experience has always been bad with drilled rotors, this does not mean that a new product built in a new way will not work but dont expect us to bite hook line and sinker. Share the real info and back it up, goes along way in an open forum.
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Old 02-25-2004, 12:08 PM   #47
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Stress cracks can show up under magnaflux tests. They are not always visible to the naked eye. Have you or the other two Pontiac owners who work at Covington and have tested the powerstops removed your rotors and had them tested? I purchased a set of cheap aftermarket rotors (not a direct comparison of the rotors in question--but an illustration of stress cracking) for a thunderbird I used to own. Visually it looked fine--until I had a metalurgical failure during normal stopping that caused the back side of the rotor to disintegrate, which in turn blew off my caliper pistons and sheered my ball joint. That was not a fun ride. I took it into the dealer for repair and was infromed that the rotor had failed due to stress fractures. They asked me if it was OEM, and when I informed them of where I got it (a local parts store), and showed them the receipt, they did their detective work and found that it was an inferior slug from China (thus a great price but poor quality).

The point is that stress fractures are not always noticeable via the naked eye but can be VERY DANGEROUS. Unless you have had your two-year-old rotors tested, you will not know they are cracked until you have a failure.

As for the off road test. It spoke about performance--not longevity. It mentions that the "gold cadnium plating...meets exacting military specifications"--not the rotor itself. This is what marketing experts do to get you to purchase their products--they say things to get the customer to infer something about the product that isn't necessarily true. The rotors in question "may" be great rotors....but the test results did not state anything about wear of the product, and given that my research (from over a year ago) pointed to potential problems from drilled rotors, I opted for the slotted rotors instead. I am sorry that I didn't keep all of my research to share with you today, but that doesn't change the fact that it does exist and that it is valid data.

My concern is safety over form or looks. As for the SD-I rotors. They look very good. They have the endorsement of several law enforcement agencies using them in real-world applications. Kudos to you for finding that link.
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Old 02-25-2004, 01:43 PM   #48
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Default Re: never have I had any problems with my powerstop brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by RamAir V
We at Covington Buick/Pontiac have tested both sloted and crossdrilled rotor on our Grand Prix and Bonnevilles aswell as Grand Ams. Both have been a great beneficial factor over stock. We yet to see any warpage or stress cracks. ............and see the wear and tear on these and find out from experience.

We did at Covington Pontiac!
Quote:
Just to prove that us here at Pontiac do the same tests on our own vehicles! with the same brakes as well as brembos and all others such as RMS.
Quote:
Trust me on these brakes, we to at Pontiac are now considering these on our own vehicles over slotted or crossdrilled rotors.
Quote:
willwren wrote:
I'll contact your Service manager and see if he also recommends this brake upgrade, and if it'* endorsed by GM. I already figured you worked for Covington or Capitol.

It would carry alot of weight if a GM dealership (with Pontiac'* own endorsement recommended this.


Thank you. Please take time and review those websites I sent you with the test on the POWERSTOP as well as the Police interceptor brakes!

you will be glad to see the Police Interceptor SD-1 brakes are Top Notch in the business!
_________________
Emmanuel Gorres
willwren wrote:
Quote:
Emmanuel, we're asking for something very simple. Do your suggestions actually carry Pontiac'* 'endorsement'? Do your suggestions actually carry your Employer'* endorsement? (Covington Pontiac). If so, we want to know. You're using your employment as a form of credibility, but for that credibility to carry any weight, we need to know if what you INFER is actually the case. Can you clarify?

We'd really like to KNOW if Covington Pontiac, or the Pontiac Division of GM knows about this brake testing program, or endorses it.

Thank you.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
Ram Air V (and all members):

I've contacted Covington Pontiac in Silver Spring Maryland. They did a database search of their employment records AND customer records. The name Emmanuel Gorres did not come up, and they have no knowledge of any such person. To aid in their investigation (as he'* using them for credibility), I provided them with Emmanuel'* street address and home telephone number, as well as this information and wild claims.

From Danny Burriss, Service Manager at Covington Pontiac (paraphrased): Covington Pontiac doesn't endorse any type of aftermarket performance brake products, and uses ONLY AC Delco/GM endorsed products. He has no knowledge of anything that Ram Air V is claiming, nor is he an employee or a customer of that business.

__________________________________________________ _____________________
One of the main reasons I made the call is that GM reads these forums. If they found reference to a licensed dealership doing what Ram Air V claims, they could get into some pretty hot water. Emmanuel has the potential to cause some very serious damage and discredit this business.

Making these claims to gain credibility is just as low as the owner of Floz joining this forum claiming to be one of his own satisfied customers.....TWICE.

I'm beginning to suspect NOTHING that Emmanuel has claimed is true, and that he may in fact be a vendor trying to push products by riding on someone else'* shirttails.

Ram Air V, you are banned. Adios.
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Old 02-25-2004, 01:55 PM   #49
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Adios Amigo!
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