Agree, and submit they often don't do this, especially when the money is rolling in while they try.

2017-2002=15 years old, and 2008-1995 is 13 years old. In 2008 I had my 1995 Roadmaster (with the LT1) 500 miles from home and 500 miles from my destination which happened to be a family funeral. It started doing things that told me "distributor distributor DISTRIBUTOR". Since it is an Optispark it wasn't as simple as one bolt and some fumbling around with a distributor on top in the Autozone parking lot. Having no time nor tools with me I nursed it to the nearest Buick dealer where they "diagnosed" it and insisted it was the PCM. I told them I believed it is the distributor and asked what if it isn't the PCM. They said "It'* the PCM" and wouldn't commit to what if it isn't. Having little in options and time I let them go ahead. Test drove and it ran like a scared rabbit. It turns out this is because the PCM hadn't been programmed to the vehicle. They took it out of the box and plugged it in and probably said something like "yee haw looky there it runs". How did I know it hadn't been programmed? Indicated 80MPH was really 92MPH by my stopwatch and the mile markers. I called them and asked if they programmed it and their response was "we ordered based on the VIN number so no programming is necessary". Then about that time it started cutting out again. Got it towed back and hitched a ride with a relative that was also driving the same way just three days later than me. Ended up flying home. The Roadmaster sat at that dealership for three months while they tried to figure out how to program it. Finally they went up the street to the local Chevy dealer and borrowed the correct adapter and programmed it. Think I got a refund? Oh and it turns out they aren't allowed to return PCMs after the bag they come in is unsealed. I ended up trailering it home, swapped the Optispark myself, and it ran like a dream. Buick GMC dealership in the middle of Utah . . . and maaaaan did they have a continuous stream of customers. If only I'd known of the Chevy dealership down the street. A distributor is a distributor, right? As it turns out, their diagnosis was "whenever it stalls the Tech 2 shows a lot of codes". Duh. It stalled. The computer will notice. They told me this after I had given up with them, parked the car in back, and was waiting for my ride.

Fast forward to about a year ago. Colleague in the office with a 2004 Tahoe got quoted over $2,500.00 for a hard-start problem. Starter, fuel pump, filter, crank sensor, warp core, kitchen sink, etc. She told me it would crank for around 15 seconds then finally fire. Every time. I printed out the detail page of the fuel-pump relay they needed to get, walked her out to the car to show how to replace it, and sent her to the local Napa. Next morning she told me she was going to swap the relay. I went along and watched while the smoke-breakers stared while she (who has probably never opened a hood in her life) opened the hood, popped the cover off the fuse center, replaced the relay, closed it all up, and started the car. Fixed. Chevrolet Cadillac dealer in Denver with their little tags on the back of a zillion cars all over town. GMC dealer a block away would have treated her right.

I could go on and on, and it'* not just GM.

Generally I diagnose them about the same, give or take different ways of doing things as engineering evolved. And yes they have access, but it is the knowledge that a lot of us have here that we know what we know, and we know to research and troubleshoot if we don't. A lot of these guys become so reliant on the computers and the sense of "today'* normal" that when something unusual comes in they can't diagnose from square one. My guys in Utah apparently couldn't figure out the chicken or the egg: Are the codes because the engine quit or did the engine quit because the computer went nuts and spit out codes?

Agree. Quite a leap from a P1639 fuel anything. PCM I could see, but only after breaking out a meter and crawling around a while.

Yup, got a parts-swapper here. The sad thing is often they are de facto protected as this is straight T&M to diagnose and repair with a generic estimate to start . . . and a customer that doesn't know their way around the repair work and/or the repair industry. "We put the new catalytic converter in because the computer said it failed. Then we found the stuck injector. Then we noticed the AIR hose disconnected. Then etc. etc." Backwards diagnostics. The poor sap paying for it is often using feelings and wallet-thickness as their barometer for how well a technician is repairing their machine.

Definitely. Can't diagnose the other stuff that may pop up if the starter has melted (for example). A good technician will then advise "We know it needs the starter replaced, and we know that the engine isn't siezed, but don't know beyond that. $123.45 for the starter repair then we can see if there are any other issues."


I understand where you're coming from . . . and I don't mean to offend anyone. At the same time I see a lot of bad stuff from a lot of the dealerships around here and in some far-flung places I have friends and family.

Some of these I've (been lucky enough to) diagnose over the phone swiftly after my friend/relative had put lots of money and time into dealership repairs. Folks around the office used to bring this stuff to me all the time after getting deep in money/time/frustration with dealership "fixes". I say "used to" because now they generally come to me first. In an office full of technical types that do a lot of commuting, a "car guy" can keep busy.

I do that there for the same reason I spend time here: It'* fun for me, I learn stuff, and too often folks get royally hosed by a lot of the auto repair shenanigans that go on out there. People shouldn't be trapped by their lack of specialty knowledge of these machines that we all need. Often they will be in a scrapyard before the long-term repercussions of the thousands of unnecessary repair dollars are still being felt.

Anyways, back to our subject here: I didn't mean to offend, but it appears fairly clear here that this dealership isn't using their good diagnosticans on this well-known and documented driveline. And they are bringing in some big money in the process.

I looked it up .They had the car 10 days $629.00 feul pump and labor $605.00 ,disposal fee $25 tax$44 total $130300

For the most part, I agree with you Cathedral Club.....

But there is absolutely no excuse for a dealership, not being able to fix it'* own cars.....

Techs get paid, for the most part, flat rate......and GM flat rate is much lower than "general book" flat rate......flat rate "breeds" short cuts.....There are shops that constantly change SM'* and Techs.....there is a reason for it....

The sad part is, not all GM shops are the same, and the same goes for Ford, Toyota, etc.

For every story you can come up with about a bad ending, I can come up with the opposite......but guess which story is usually printed on the internet?

When you go into a dealership, and you have a driveability problem, you ask the SM, "Who is your best diagnostician?" If he says all my guys are, then you walk out of the place because the SM is bullshitting you right from the get go.....every shop has that "guy", and it is up to you to ask for him, and get him to work on your vehicle.....

Basic maintenance, just about anyone can do it in a shop.....but the guys that diagnose, are special....like I was...

Definitely agree there are way more good stories than bad. If there weren't then the dealership repair architecture would be completely different today. The Buick GMC dealership I mentioned a block away from my friend'* former Chevy Cadillac dealership is a good example.

That said, they aren't what they used to be say two or more decades ago. Back in the day there was an ethos of doing things right and taking pride. Yes there were a few bad eggs too, they often got the do-overs, didn't last long, and gave the career guys some stories to tell. It feels today like the good:bad ratio has changed quite a bit. Especially the price points.

Seems steep to me. The fuel pump appears to be at least a 50% markup. I don't begrudge them making a little profit on parts but that seems like a lot.

The labor does include taking some of the rear suspension and exhaust apart to get to the tank. Let'* say four hours including diagnostics time you'd have $151.25/hour. That wouldn't be too unreasonable around here. Four hours to do some diagnostics, get to the tank, remove it, swap pump etc., reinstall, and some followup time isn't horrible . . . and they may have done more than I'm aware of.

I still wonder why it was there ten days for what has been repaired, what the P1639 has to do with the fuel system, and if a fuel pressure gauge was ever used.

the P1639 is for the check engine light,my first post .not for the feul pumpI was looking at my receipt for the P1639 code ..he stated that the AC pressure sensor had failed causing the inconsistancyin the 5v reference signal.Retested system and passed.test drove.,I paid $236.98 .He kept 1 day $50.00 for sensor the rest labor.When I drove the car ,I stopped at the store 3 blocks away and the light came back on withe same code.Can I detest paying that?If I unpluged the right sensor the Ac stopped working,so that showed that the sensor was good.I did that before I took it up there