2001 Montana Electrical problems - Page 3 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 02-04-2014, 01:28 PM   #21
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at idle it just takes for ever to build up the heat. and if you see the fuel pressure do something weird before it cuts out then you have narrowed it down quite a bit, the pump is likely good but there are still a number of this related to the fuel pump power and ground it could be
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:38 PM   #22
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Justin,
Thanks, I will look and see what I can about the electrical connections in the pump circuit. Not sure if the pump ever changes output due to demand on the engine or only keeps pressure constant? Does anyone know if the pump is variable output or a fixed output controlled by the pressure switches only?
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:39 PM   #23
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its vacuum controlled, there is a little disk shaped thing on the rail that has vacuum to it
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:46 PM   #24
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Haven't got to check the fuel pressure yet but now I am beginning to wonder about one thing that hasn't been changed in a long time, the O2 sensors. From reading the manual on hard starting and other running issues I am wondering what a bad O2 sensor will do. There are two sensors on this car, one before and one after the converter. I was just going to go online and see how you test an O2 sensor if you can. I see the voltage to the two sensors changing but since I cant drive the car long enough for it to show a dtc code I don't know if the O2 sensors are working correctly? I know I changed them long ago but had to have the catalytic converter replace after that due to a missfire brought on by this same problem before, it cooked the cat and ruined it. I'll see if there is any test I can do to see if the O2 sensors are at fault.

I am learning more about this car and electronics than I ever thought I would since I stopped servicing these late model cars. I have another car, an Olds with the same 3.4liter engine just sitting waiting for me to change the head gaskets. Water level kept going down with no sign of a leak until I finally found a very slow leak on the bottom of a hose connection, very slow leakage at first. I noticed the level going down and then the oil level going up and knew what was happening. It took out the head gasket for sure even though the engine never got hot on the gauge. I could see that chocolate milk color in the oil I immediately stopped driving the car but one car at a time. Now I will know these engines inside and out when I am all done.
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:22 PM   #25
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they make it redundant so it wont shut the car off, o2s will not. there are only a few things that will. crank sensor, tps, maf, fuel pressure, icm. i think thats it
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:23 PM   #26
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maf will kill the car but if you unplug it and start it, it will run fine on the open loop maps
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:35 PM   #27
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Okay then, the only thing I haven't been able to confirm is operating correctly is the fuel pressure. I wouldn't think that a bad injector would cause it to turn off either, but in the manual there is a section on high resistance in the wires going to the injectors. Still trying to figure out where the end of the injector harness is so I can probe it and measure the voltages and the resistance without pulling the manifold to get to them. Looking in the manual I still haven't found where the connector is yet. I really don't think it is any injector problem but it could be a heat soak problem somewhere because that is what I keep seeing, it only happens when the engine gets hot, runs fine until that time. No hot wires so far near the exhaust that I can find or anywhere else. Can't exactly see behind the back of the engine on this van, can't even really get your hands in there to feel around. Something is getting hot that I do know, it is very consistent in how it is happening, not a random thing at all.
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:13 PM   #28
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When the engine cranks but won't start, did you try spraying starter fluid? If it starts with starter fluid you have a fuel delivery issue. Check fuel pressure.

When you changed the crank position sensor, did you check the condition of the harmonic balancer? Check for spark on at each plug when you have a no start condition. No spark could be a CPS issue.

Do a compression test on all cylinders to see if there is an internal mechanical issue.

Look for signs of a blown head gasket. Coolant in the oil, oil in the coolant, pressure in the cooling system, etc.
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:30 PM   #29
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I'd hate to think that a cps would be bad after it was recently changed and wouldn't think the engine could idle for over an hour if it was a cps. I was just going to recheck all the sensor ground circuits again and whatever else I can think of. I'm not sure that a hall sensor would have a heat soak problem but you never know that is for sure. I just wish I had two way communication with the pcm and not just a simple one way scanner even though this is a good one I am using.

I left the car idling last night for over an hour and a half, not a hiccup until I put it in gear and then died and wouldn't restart. Let it cool down and instant start. I don't have any ether, starter fluid, on hand so would have to get some and see if it would start.

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Old 02-04-2014, 07:32 PM   #30
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like i said it has to be one of the things i listed. overthinking things ends up wasting time
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