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Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 09-12-2004, 03:27 AM   #11
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ooooh yeah I'm sure there'* a lot to do...flywheel issues, computer issues, mounting issues, linkage issues...its really something you have to want to do because you want to do it. there probably won't be an advantage worth the effort
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Old 09-12-2004, 03:30 AM   #12
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Well.....I have a wrench set...most of it it would be a neat thing to do though.
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Old 09-12-2004, 03:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix_flame220
Well.....I have a wrench set...most of it it would be a neat thing to do though.
lol ...yeah it would be but just not practical. there isn't an advantage really. tons of racers prefer the automatics because of consistency anyway. you don't wanna run 15.5 one run and 16.7 another cause you missed a shift. beef up an auto
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Old 09-12-2004, 03:05 PM   #14
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Isn't it true that there are greater power losses with an automatic vs a manual transmission?
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Old 09-12-2004, 03:14 PM   #15
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Depends on which two you're comparing but yes generally. The only thing is with an automatic if you add 30hp you'll be that much faster, with a manual if you add 30hp and are extremely good with shifts and hit them exactly the same every time you'll hopefully be that much faster. Consistency
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Old 09-12-2004, 03:16 PM   #16
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Yes, the Auto'* suck more power than the Manuels. A manuel you can launch off the line right where you're vehicle'* power band is where with an auto you would have to neutral bomb it to do something like that. A clutch you also have so much skill of knowing your car that feathering your clutch and knowing the feel of your car, you could kill anything. To a certain extent of course As for the shift kits, Trans-Go'* are the best ones and most reliable ones I've ever seen. B&M'* are just a joke, I had one installed in my Truck, and I kick the crap out of that thing and I turned the fluid Diesel oil black in about 10,000 miles and I flushed it and the tranny blew about another 8,000 later. So no, B&M is a very bad idea.
Nate
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Old 09-13-2004, 03:22 AM   #17
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okay.... first thing .. the fiero'* Getrag is WEAK WEAK WEAK WEAK ... like... weaker then the 4t60/E

and I dunno what kinda drag racing you guys are doing.. but an Auto is EASIER to launch then a manual... the biggest difference.. you can't power brake with a manual and load up the drivewheels so the car just takes off instead of shocking the driveline and the tires going up in smoke... if you've a turbo car this advantage is multiplied over launching versus a manual as the turbo won't make "real" boost till the engine is under load.. which you can do on the start line with the auto. next lets get into the fact that with a simple shift kit... an auto will shift WAY faster then any human on a manual ...worried about being able to play with the stick and keeping the car in gear? get a manual valvebody ... there are alot of kits out on the market that are manual/auto valve bodys... where when the car is in o/d or drive the car shifts itself... below that it holds that gear till you shift... throw in a rachet shifter... you walk on that manual all that much more... and can still cruise the highway and rush hour traffic without killing your legs

Level 10 has manual/auto valve body , performance rebuild kits (this is the main thing...way better clutch packs and such) .. and a mild internal shift kit.... DrJay and I talked about this a little when I ran into him in a chat room... the 4t60Es internal upgrades parts should/do swap/work into the 4t60 ... the biggest problem is the 4t60E "shift kits" are electrical and the 4t60 is mechanically controlled for shift points and such... so your gonna have to open the case.

another think on shift kits... there are usually 3 different options in shift kits... street, towing, Drag.... a stock internaled 4t60 should have little to no problems with the extra firmness of a street shift kit... the added internal line pressure will actually help the trans last longer as it stops less slippage of the clutch packs... now you start getting into the heavyduty/towing and Drag shift kits your really gonna be getting into serious shock loads inside the casing.
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Old 09-13-2004, 04:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectheavytouring
okay.... first thing .. the fiero'* Getrag is WEAK WEAK WEAK WEAK ... like... weaker then the 4t60/E

and I dunno what kinda drag racing you guys are doing.. but an Auto is EASIER to launch then a manual... the biggest difference.. you can't power brake with a manual and load up the drivewheels so the car just takes off instead of shocking the driveline and the tires going up in smoke... if you've a turbo car this advantage is multiplied over launching versus a manual as the turbo won't make "real" boost till the engine is under load.. which you can do on the start line with the auto. next lets get into the fact that with a simple shift kit... an auto will shift WAY faster then any human on a manual ...worried about being able to play with the stick and keeping the car in gear? get a manual valvebody ... there are alot of kits out on the market that are manual/auto valve bodys... where when the car is in o/d or drive the car shifts itself... below that it holds that gear till you shift... throw in a rachet shifter... you walk on that manual all that much more... and can still cruise the highway and rush hour traffic without killing your legs

Level 10 has manual/auto valve body , performance rebuild kits (this is the main thing...way better clutch packs and such) .. and a mild internal shift kit.... DrJay and I talked about this a little when I ran into him in a chat room... the 4t60Es internal upgrades parts should/do swap/work into the 4t60 ... the biggest problem is the 4t60E "shift kits" are electrical and the 4t60 is mechanically controlled for shift points and such... so your gonna have to open the case.

another think on shift kits... there are usually 3 different options in shift kits... street, towing, Drag.... a stock internaled 4t60 should have little to no problems with the extra firmness of a street shift kit... the added internal line pressure will actually help the trans last longer as it stops less slippage of the clutch packs... now you start getting into the heavyduty/towing and Drag shift kits your really gonna be getting into serious shock loads inside the casing.
As far as the getrag goes the Fiero getrag isn't the most powerful but there are SEVERAL options. I've heard plenty about the Fiero Getrag taking 200hp but I'm not sure what modifications were necessary...There are quite a few different versions out there and depending on which one you get they are fully capable of taking the power of a 3.8.

Getrag is actually a German company that designed it but its built at Detroit Diesel Allison in Muncie, Indiana. This is why its also called the Muncie/Getrag transmission. Versions of the Getrag transmission hauls some very powerful cars including the Nissan Skyline, the Audi TT, and the Getrag 360 which is in Dodge diesel trucks.

If you take a look at: http://members.ispwest.com/newmdav/new_page_1.htm You'll see that he'* bolted the Series II to a 1988 Getrag 5 speed. He'* also calling for 207hp with modifications he'* done. He also says it was so easy to bolt up its as if "GM wanted it that way." On a side note, a 3800 powers his Ferrari replica! haha

In anycase, you can see that with the right homework there are several options for a Getrag 5speed.

"you can't power brake with a manual and load up the drivewheels so the car just takes off instead of shocking the driveline and the tires going up in smoke"

Yes but this isn't always an advantage. The engine will only allow you to rev as high as the torque converter is set to, thats actually one way you check the stall speed. With the right traction a 2000rpm+ launch will almost always win.

I've read your average manual transmission can lose 12-18%, an auto can lose as much as 18-22% in driveline loss. This is unacceptable to some people who are after the last ounce of horsepower.

"there are usually 3 different options in shift kits... street, towing, Drag.... a stock internaled 4t60 should have little to no problems with the extra firmness of a street shift kit"

The traditional sense of a "shift kit" (valve body) was never offered for the 4t60-e transmission. There are, however, updated valve bodies that will firm the shifts and improve response time and mid-shift time. There are of course the electronic "shift kits." Don't quote me on this but I don't think the 4t60-e in standard form will deal too well with the firmed shifts. The 4t60 can't actually handle all the torque the 3800 puts out which is why it doesn't shift at redline. The PCM is also programmed to pull fuel and spark timing just before it shifts in an attempt to save the transmission from the full force of the engine. Adding a shift-kit without helping the internals may lead down a bad road....Again, just food for thought.
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