if you are really serious about getting a P&P then get the one from ZZP, it looks like the best bet, and they are on backorder so you know they work

What is it actually? The Intake Manifold or more?

P&P? Not do any good?

Sounds like somebody needs to lay off the crack.. lol

Anyone knows, that reducing restrictive intake, and increasing flow will increase power.

P&P is a stepping stone to any major performance engine.

Turbobird, the 3800 is a unique drivetrain. It'* built from the ground up for performance to begin with. Our roots go back to the Buick Grand National, and our drivetrains are much improved from that. Roller rockers, roller lifters, forged crank, etc.

We're more performance designed from the factory than any other FWD GM car. Bar none. Which means we flow pretty good to begin with.

To make it simple, since we flow so well, the % gain our engines see from simply porting and polishing would be less than a drivetrain with less performance designed in to begin with.

he would be p&ping his exhaust manifolds, the intake manifold is plastic

I think a lot can be gained, espeically on series 1. A new upper intake manifold will give you TONS. Exhaust manifolds can be one of the biggest gains as well, i assume they're one of the major holdups in our drivetrains.

I don't consider the 3800 to be a very performance oriented engine from the factory. It'* made to move the cars it goes into. The tranny isn't anything wonderful, and the engine goes to about 5k rpm. Doesn't mean it'* bad, but there'* plenty of better "performance" engines, even from GM. The Turbo 3.1 is one of them

It'* an iron engine thru and thru, that'* made to last, and move large cars. IMHO. For 3.8L it could have much more from the factory, but they made it very smooth, and it gets decent milage. Doesn't mean it'* hard to open up though...

^^^^ all that plus its a V6, where the aftermarket is much thinner than that of a small block...

Meh... just remember... Speed Costs. How fast do you want to go?

Both of you be quiet! Both statements make me cry at night :(

lol...

but the costs of speed are much more worth it in a 5.0(just an example) for instance... $5,000 into a 5.0 = low 12'* (at least), or $5,000 + 98 bonneville ssei = 14'*

looks like i bought the wrong car!!!